Looks / attractiveness and work

[xmasfairy21]

Hi
A conversation I was having with a more senior
Woman I work with went like this:

The more attractive people do better regardless of ability due to beauty effect

Make the most of whatever you have as a woman as men make most decisions and want to be surrounded by attractive women

Up to a certain age women can use this but then reverses or stops post menopause and same men will focus on younger women

What do other people think. I work for a big organisation and guess I was a bit shocked. But she said lots of research. Said you could guess how well people would do from junior grades by including looks as well as personality & skill.

Thoughts ??

That sounds plausible.

Isn’t it similar that tall men (statistically) do better than short men?

People make judgements based on your looks - that’s always been the case. And people then make decisions based on these judgements.

I don’t think it’s regardless of ability of skill no. I do think an attractive woman with an outgoing personality with the same ability and skill set will often do better than a less attractive one with a more introverted personality

However that’s just foot in the door or entry level, pas that it’s all about ability otherwise every senior woman would be supermodel gorgeous. So clearly she’s talking Shite

It’s also so mysogynistic to say it’s irrelevant of ability. Attractive women can also be very capable you know. Ability and intelligence is not linked to attractiveness,

Yes @Bluntness100 one of those things though now I'm noticing the most senior women do seem to be generally slimmer , more put together / styles and come across as more attractive than more junior ones

Don't often see very overweight or ugly senior women do you? But thinking about it maybe it's the same for men as well? In days done by mens looks didn't matter much but maybe that is now gone

Unfortunately I agree. Particularly so for females in the workplace.

Of course ability is not linked to attractiveness but for some reason it is perceived so.

Would the slimmer and more put together looking senior level women not have greater leverage when it comes to salary and working hours? I.e., making an excellent wage at the same 40-hour work week, so can easily afford higher quality clothing, fabrics, tailoring, salon appointments, styling tools, manicures, skin care, high end makeup, organic vegetables, a gym membership/trainer and/or active hobbies.

And probably has leveraged the working hours to be both senior level and still fit in that daily run or yoga class.

And enough spare for high quality child care.

When I was younger it often seemed to work against me. It was very hard to be taken seriously while being female, young, slim and pretty. You couldn't possibly be attractive and have brains.

I wish it weren't true but I fear it is. I have put a lot of effort into my appearance (nails, gym, good haircut etc) because this has been my observation and experience. I'm good at my job but always felt that that wasn't deemed to be enough for a woman in the work place. I'm now quite senior and doing everything in my power to change this for the next generation.

I don't feel that I have to look amazing. I'm not on television or film. I try to look presentable and that's enough. It's not a beauty contest.

Yes, you need to be well put together to go to senior positions. But this goes for men too: scruffy or overweight men will not be perceived to be as clever or successful as tidy, fit men.

Most senior men I know are overweight and unattractive.

Men don't need makeup or style sense though. Not fat + showered is their standard.

Slightly overweight and occasionally showered is my standard as a director.

Probably depends on the field but in tech / corporate / media environments I have seen this to be true. Being charismatic also helps. It often seemed that ability/output Vs looks/charisma had equal Weighting in terms of how well regarded one was professionally, in my experience of those fields.

In every single place I have worked the women who do best/well, are women who look and behave like men.

We've had young and attractive women turn up where I work and some of them think their attractiveness is a ticket to getting out of the hard graft. It isnt, and they dont last long.

Your colleague was right, as depressing as that is.

Don't often see very overweight or ugly senior women do you?

Personally I’ve never met an ugly woman, but most senior women, ans certainly in my company which is global corporate would not be deemed to be hot or above average attractiveness.

If this is “I didn’t get ahead because I’m not pretty enough” then that’s a cop out quite frankly.

Most senior women I know are slim and stylish. I am the exception. I must be fucking brilliant at my
Job because I definitely didn’t get it on looks!

Most of the successful senior women I know at work are pretty average looks wise. I am not sure being beautiful is particularly useful at a senior level.

Your colleague is right that there is research to show this - though I believe it’s true for men as well as women. Both sexes also have a positive correlation between earnings + height, though it’s more significant for men.

I think we will see this kind of thing change quickly now we’ve moved to a more virtual working world.

@bluejelly

Most of the successful senior women I know at work are pretty average looks wise. I am not sure being beautiful is particularly useful at a senior level.

Exactly. Being attractive opens more doors, sure. And yes it might get hou some initial promotions, but to say women who get to senior level get their because of their looks irrelevant of their ability is one of THE most offensive and mysogynistic things I’ve had the misfortune to read on here.

It’s something I’d expect to hear from an incel.

I'll be honest, and may NC after. I've definitely used looks and a little flirting to help me open doors or get on the right side of people but I've always had the brains to keep me where I want to be. I wouldn't have lasted long without the brains

Successful women I know are slim and pretty but then so are lots of unsuccessful (depending how you look at it) women I know to

Is there something in thinking that there's a minimum attractiveness (but also not tarty) looks and dress standard women have to meet to progress upwards ?

I also think people generally want to spend more time with attractive people- so say if you have Botox and therefore look less tired / happier (?) your face matches how you feel and then people take you more seriously (??)

Are we going to get to the stage where past a certain age, it's difficult to keep or progress in a professional competitive role if a woman doesn't keep up fashion, weight, face and hair wise ?

I don't know had t really thought about any of this before - but of an eye opener

I think it's just important to look fit and put together just for the sake of feeling positive about yourself. If I didn't, I wouldn't feel good about myself and probably wouldn't work as well.

Yes there are loads of studies that suggest this, but I would not say regardless of skill. But put two equally skilled and experienced people and it is human nature to go with the more attractive candidate. This applies to men too. And it is definitely harder for the post 50s to get a job - men and women. Don't know why you are shocked it seems obvious to me, though some of her other suggestions I would put less weight to.