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State retirement age is too old for working class people

346 replies

Spiceup · 06/11/2021 19:23

An observation from some things I've seen lately. I'll explain.

I work in a public sector organisation that employees highly qualified and very well paid professionals alongside support staff on not much more than minimum wage and those in between.

Part of my role is managing sickness absence. What I am seeing lately is that the professional types, despite doing what are generally accepted to be stressful jobs, on the whole, stay well until well into their sixties, although many do retire earlier simply because they have the kind of pensions that make that possible.

People in the more lowly jobs are often genuinely finished by their mid-late 50s. Just worn out and suffering from multiple health problems. Perhaps because of their lifestyles or maybe from just having harder lives (not necessarily harder work lives, but getting by is just generally harder for them). To have to go on to 67 is just absurd and very few do, with ill health retirement common (so the state is paying anyway).

I can't begin to imagine how similar people manage in genuinely physical jobs, in construction for example.

Is it more common for working class people in their 50s to be worn out, or perhaps more comfortably off professionals retire before they get to that point so I don't see it?

OP posts:
SpinachIsAGatewayDrug · 09/11/2021 11:53

Many are caught in the middle, caring for older and younger family plus the effects of the menopause. Too many women are burnt out just holding their family together and many will have a very poor quality of life when they do retire.

Agree with this wholeheartedly.

Rugsofhonour · 09/11/2021 11:56

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ArblemarchTFruitbat · 09/11/2021 12:08

Also given the views expressed by younger people on MN, they simply wont let their parents stay with them

My parents would be welcome, but they don't want to. I live at the other end of the country and they don't want to leave their house or the town they've lived in for the last 50 years - which is understandable. I can't move because my job is here and if I relocated I would have to move to a different company and I'd lose too much in the way of pension and benefits (have worked for 20+ years in current company) - so it's a stalemate.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

shylatte · 09/11/2021 12:34

Travellers have a significantly lower life expectancy. One study of a particular group in the UK revealed that 50% die before their 39th birthday Sad

TractorAndHeadphones · 09/11/2021 13:37

@julieca pensioners now might be able to live on benefits but will this continue in future? Also again depends on what type of life you consider ‘good’.

To the OP’s point of certain groups being allowed a lower pension age - from a purely actuarial , monetary point of view this is feasible if it can be proven that said people have been in manual jobs etc all their lives. But still doesn’t solve the problem of most people being net takers rather than net contribtlutors.

The money for pensions comes mainly from the taxes of the working populations at the time people were old. Not the money that the old people paid in throughout their lives.

When the current group of pensioners paid there were less old people so the maths worked. Now it’s the reverse a smaller and smaller working population paying for a bigger cohort of elderly people especially with the U.K’s declining birthrate.

Malibuismysecrethome · 09/11/2021 18:45

Rugsofhonour yes I have notice this as well even when the elderly are in danger by staying in their homes.

Also if you have savings over £16,000 I don’t think you are eligible for a carers allowance.

MercyBooth · 09/11/2021 19:03

Not to mention the changes to the Pension Credit rules. The Government want it all ways.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/3479693-Changes-to-Pension-Credit

Rugsofhonour · 09/11/2021 19:10

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julieca · 09/11/2021 20:26

Any income-related benefits you dont get if you have over £16k savings. You also don't get carers if you have income below quite a low level. I am a carer for a relative and at one point was working part time on not much money. I was dealing with their benefits and the woman dealing with council tax kept querying why I was not getting carers allowance. Because I was still not entitled.

2020isnotbehaving · 09/11/2021 20:48

Plus once you have savings over £6000 the amount you get is reduced. By some stupid high level I think it’s £16 per month per £1000 to account for interest which is laughable given rates. so if you have £4K savings over £6k limit that’s £52 month they deduct from your benefits.

It’s trap even if on low wage you do save money for retirement at any point when you can’t work it all gets reduced anyway.

talkingdeadscot · 10/11/2021 00:21

@2020isnotbehaving

Plus once you have savings over £6000 the amount you get is reduced. By some stupid high level I think it’s £16 per month per £1000 to account for interest which is laughable given rates. so if you have £4K savings over £6k limit that’s £52 month they deduct from your benefits.

It’s trap even if on low wage you do save money for retirement at any point when you can’t work it all gets reduced anyway.

You can save money for your retirement in a pension. The money you put in isn't counted as income for benefits either. Obviously, when you access the money it is counted as income.
Malibuismysecrethome · 10/11/2021 08:06

But you can’t save money for a pension if you are desperately short of money to live day to day.
What about all the people who paid into pensions like the Mirror Group and recent scandals that had their pension contributions effectively stolen from them.

Donotgogentle · 10/11/2021 09:17

www.ppf.co.uk/

Since the Mirror group scandal there’s some government protection for pensions now. It only applies to defined benefit schemes where the employer goes bust.

2020isnotbehaving · 10/11/2021 09:25

Yes that’s what I meant if you life savings are only around £6k mark plus just state pension and struggling day to day it’s not enough money really have private pension and pay funds and if you need access it for repair car or washing machine etc it’s no good to you at all. The average funeral is around £4-6k I suspect this is why they let you save it so least you can afford bury yourself. Not eveyone can afford pay in schemes for 20-40y and where could get out less than pay in so there is a lump sum.

Malibuismysecrethome · 10/11/2021 09:29

It’s good that there is some protection now but some people who are coming up to pensionable age will have had their contributions “stolen” from them.

julieca · 10/11/2021 10:05

Lots of older people had pensions stolen from them. The Mirror group was the most high profile case but there were plenty of others.

Babyroobs · 10/11/2021 10:35

@Malibuismysecrethome

Rugsofhonour yes I have notice this as well even when the elderly are in danger by staying in their homes. Also if you have savings over £16,000 I don’t think you are eligible for a carers allowance.
Savings have nothing to do with carers allowance. You could be a millionaire and claim carers allowance as long as you meet the criteria. People over state pension age do not benefit from claiming carers allowance as state pension and carers allowance are overlapping benefits. The only way they would benefit is if they were eligible to claim pension credit then they would get an extra carers addition.
Malibuismysecrethome · 10/11/2021 10:38

If you earn over £128 per week you cannot claim carers allowance.

Babyroobs · 10/11/2021 10:40

@Malibuismysecrethome

If you earn over £128 per week you cannot claim carers allowance.
That is correct. However if you are on a low enough income to claim Universal credit ( which many carers will be ), you can still claim the carers element of Universal credit. The upcoming changes to Uc announced in the budget last week will also make many more people eligible to claim UC.
Babyroobs · 10/11/2021 10:40

Sorry I should say you can still claim UC carers element no matter how much you earn in wages.

julieca · 10/11/2021 10:45

I didnt know you could claim UC carers allowance? You mean if you are on UC?
I care for a relative and work, but have cared enough hours at times in the past to be entitled to carers allowance. I don't see why most carers would be on UC? If you don't have kids under 18 years of age and no rent, the amount of income you can earn is very low to claim UC. My part-time work on a low income meant I wasn't entitled.

Kitkat151 · 10/11/2021 10:49

@julieca

I didnt know you could claim UC carers allowance? You mean if you are on UC? I care for a relative and work, but have cared enough hours at times in the past to be entitled to carers allowance. I don't see why most carers would be on UC? If you don't have kids under 18 years of age and no rent, the amount of income you can earn is very low to claim UC. My part-time work on a low income meant I wasn't entitled.
I think the carer element of UC can be worth far more than careers allowance .....get some benefits advice
Kitkat151 · 10/11/2021 10:50

Carers allowance

julieca · 10/11/2021 10:59

Just checked. The person needs to be getting PIP, DLA or Attendance Allowance. Still not eligible.

Kitkat151 · 10/11/2021 11:05

@julieca

Just checked. The person needs to be getting PIP, DLA or Attendance Allowance. Still not eligible.
Isn’t that the same for carers allowance....that they have to be in receipt of one of those benefits?