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Informal chat about sickness now formal...advise needed please!

48 replies

Crazyhouse123 · 04/11/2021 09:37

Ok so is long sorry but I want to try and get as much information in as I can!

In Jan 2020 I was offered a part time job in a local hospital admin...it's in a branch of the NHS but not the main NHS.

I started March 2020, pandemic hit, I went full time and was then seconded to another central team to support a project and worked literally 7 days a week 12 to 14 hours a day supporting this... from home for around 6 weeks. I passed my probation with flying colours and in October 2020 went for, and got, a job in the central team supporting health staff nationally. WFH position.

I was, and am, excellent at my job. It's level 1 banding (slightly different to NHS but band 3 equivalent) and suited me as I was also studying for my masters. Level and salary were the same as I was on but more opportunities for promotion.

I switched Uni in September 2020 and started again (course and pandemic meant a better choice for me) so my MA lasted 2 years instead of the 1 expected. My new role was shifts and I was also managing my kids, all of whom have been diagnosed or who are currently being assessed for asd and adhd at varying levels. My dp works long hours s/e and was working even more once lockdown lifted as there was so much work and everything fell onto me.

In April I had surgery on my sinuses, after this had been delayed due to the pandemic. Prior to this my manager left to another employer and I went for an interview at her new employer and got the job...same as I was doing but slightly more money and less pressure. I did not get on there...I didn't know why at the time, hindsight is a wonderful thing!, my exit interview with my old employer took place after I had started there due to the time off I had had for the surgery. They said they would have me back, and when I said I may be interested they bit my hand off and I was starting back there within 3 months of leaving.

So... July ( a month after I started back) I was diagnosed with adhd. Long process and answered a million questions. I had a precbooked week off when my MA dissertation was due shortly afterwards and fell to pieces with anxiety and stress. I've always been able to cope and suddenly I couldn't. On top of the surgery recovery, starting hrt and crippling migraines (no doubt not helped by all of the above!) I ended up taking a month off with stress.

Because I was a re-starter I had to undertake my 3 months probation again. I wasn't overly impressed with this as they had been desperate to have me back but accepted it as a requirement without complain obviously! I took a month off and they have extended my probation by 3 months. This in itself, while not ideal, I accepted...i would have rather a month to just make up the time I had off but HR insisted on 3 months. All this was through my manager HR never spoke to me directly.

I was also not entitled to full pay on sick leave, as my contract of employment was new and I needed to be there for a year. My pay at the end of August was full pay as I was off sick after the payroll cut off. At the end of September they paid me SSP for the whole of September (not technically correct as I returned mid September) but they also deducted half of my pay for August in one go, with no notice and replaced it with SSP. So I was paid at the end of September a grand total of just over £10. With no notice. Their payroll team just said it will be sorted October HR said they couldn't do anything.

You can imagine the stress and worry this caused. I ended up leaving work early one day the following week with a migraine. So worried about my time off sick I went back too early and ended up taking the Friday off too and ended up on antibiotics for a sinus infection (saw my consultant the following week and I have ongoing scar tissue weeping so they are keeping an eye on this).

My manager advised that I would need a sickness review with herself and HR. OK I figured that's ok, she assured me it isn't a formal warning or anything just a chat, but I have had the letter this morning and been advised to have representation and all of my sicknesses are down as migraines which is quite clearly not the case. Her line manager will also be present.

I am so unbelievably upset, anxious and stressed about this now. I have been diagnosed with a disability that has held me back my entire life. They talked to me about this and agreed a plan to help me manage my working day (role had changed since I was here at the beginning of the year and is just one task all day long most days they agreed to split my tasks 50/50 this just hasn't happened despite me asking again a couple of times). My 121's with my manager are often late, she spends the whole time answering queries on the support feed and she seems to tell me one thing and either forget to do anything to support me or just do something else. I am excellent at my job still despite all this, scoring 99% average in my KPI's for Oct for instance. I really do like my manager but don't think she gets that I have a disability and is old school as far as MH is concerned.

Please help...any advise would be gratefully received. I know that this is all very outing but I don't believe there is anything that shouldn't be there. I am going to see about joining a union today.

OP posts:
Crazyhouse123 · 04/11/2021 09:45

Sorry...meant to add I have very rarely taken time off sick before in any job unless for surgery. This year has been horrific and I feel very vulnerable right now.

OP posts:
purpleme12 · 04/11/2021 09:52

Oh I'm so sorry this sounds awful.. I don't think unions can help unless you've joined them before the issue though?
Sorry I've not got experience in this but I hope you get it sorted soon

Crazyhouse123 · 04/11/2021 09:56

Thank you so much for your reply. That's what I was worried about with regards to the union...I'm going to try and speak to one shortly.

OP posts:
twointhemorning · 04/11/2021 10:01

I'm sorry this is happening to you OP. When you applied for your current job did you declare your disability on your application form? Also is your disability declared on your HR record?

Bluntness100 · 04/11/2021 10:17

It’s not really clear how much time off you’ve had exactly v the time you’ve been back ?

BubblesThaDragoon · 04/11/2021 10:22

Sorry this is happening OP. I would join a union if you aren’t already in one and request representation - some you need to be a member prior to the issue others will help straight away because a lot of people are having issues with employment and COVID.

If that fails - I would approach ACAS for advice and bring any medical letters as evidence to the meeting. I’d also be looking up the equality at work act, as having a disability is a protected characteristic and legally your employer must make reasonable adjustments if required. I’d quote the legislation in the meeting and make suggestions you feel would constitute reasonable adjustments.

www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance

www.acas.org.uk/discrimination-and-the-law

Good luck OP I’ve been there with a pervious employer who attempted to manage me out because of absences due to epilepsy - they failed Flowers

Bluntness100 · 04/11/2021 10:23

From what I can understand you started June, took a week of for your dissertation, then took a month off due to stress mid aug to mid sept. Then another two days off, or more due to sickness then stress again?

So you started June, and in the four months of working have been off with sickness or stress approx six weeks of this? If this is the case this is why they will be needing to do a review.

Polmuggle · 04/11/2021 10:24

OP bear in mind that a meeting is not always about consequences! It might be to offer support and occupational health - especially if you have advisability and therefore need adjustments. You must have a policy on this? I've been on the otherside of this and HAD to do a meeting as that was the policy triggered by X number of days!

What I am confused about though it what disability you're referring to?

Polmuggle · 04/11/2021 10:26

Sorry, just realised you're probably referring to your ADHD if you see that as having a significant negative impact on your ability to do your job. In which case OccHealth is something you need for adjustments.

TheUndeadLovelinessOfDemons · 04/11/2021 10:27

@Polmuggle

OP bear in mind that a meeting is not always about consequences! It might be to offer support and occupational health - especially if you have advisability and therefore need adjustments. You must have a policy on this? I've been on the otherside of this and HAD to do a meeting as that was the policy triggered by X number of days!

What I am confused about though it what disability you're referring to?

The OP has ADHD.
Bluntness100 · 04/11/2021 10:29

@Polmuggle

Sorry, just realised you're probably referring to your ADHD if you see that as having a significant negative impact on your ability to do your job. In which case OccHealth is something you need for adjustments.
This. But also what is different now in terms of this than when you previously worked for them? You now have a diagnosis but have you had other changes?

Also your previous employer you left, were you off sick there due to the sinus operation? Was this a contributing factor and could they have mentioned sickness record in any reference?

Crazyhouse123 · 04/11/2021 10:31

@twointhemorning

I'm sorry this is happening to you OP. When you applied for your current job did you declare your disability on your application form? Also is your disability declared on your HR record?
No I hadn't been diagnosed when I went back but did tell them once I had been diagnosed. This was when my manager and HR were able to discuss the 50/50 split of tasks which hasn't happened to help manage my disability. I am not aware how much HR are aware as they are almost impossible to get hold of but I do know that they know.
OP posts:
TractorAndHeadphones · 04/11/2021 10:42

The post is very confusing.
The only relevant bit is the final job where you started in June. Had a week off prebooked. And a month of with stress, and more days off sick.
Your pay was docked unfairly.
And you’re worried there’s a formal sickness review instead of your manager ‘informally’ handling it?
Did I get that right?

GenderAtheist · 04/11/2021 10:43

Please phone the ACAS helpline who will give you advice.

Before the call, write down a clear timeline with start dates, dates of your absences ( and the reasons given on your sicklines), dates of your diagnosis and when you informed then of this etc, dates of all your emails to payroll and HR etc.

Am I correct in thinking that you have have several days sick on a Friday and then several weeks in the summer back to back with annual leave ? If so that will be triggering their absence management procedures.

GenderAtheist · 04/11/2021 10:49

@TractorAndHeadphones

The post is very confusing. The only relevant bit is the final job where you started in June. Had a week off prebooked. And a month of with stress, and more days off sick. Your pay was docked unfairly. And you’re worried there’s a formal sickness review instead of your manager ‘informally’ handling it? Did I get that right?
I’m not sure if her pay was docked unfairly. The OP was off sick after the payroll cut off date. There will no doubt be a clause in her contract that allowed them to claw back any over pay in this circumstance.

I think the Op is objecting to them deducting the lay without notice, but again it’s probably in her contract or the staff handbook.

I’m not trying to be difficult BTW, just trying to clarify the key issues . The Op will need to have all the relevant facts clear in her own mind before she seeks advice.

TractorAndHeadphones · 04/11/2021 10:54

Also OP I’m confused as to what outcome you want exactly?
The pay aside (which is HR being useless as usual and you should complain).

Your issues are from a bunch of things not just your disability. And the 50/50 task split was also not related to your disability. So what is the relevance especially since they haven’t attributed the sickness review to your disability at all? And you are performing on your KPI

Btw I also have adult diagnosed ADHD

TractorAndHeadphones · 04/11/2021 10:54

You should rewrite this post with tables and bullet points…

Crazyhouse123 · 04/11/2021 10:55

Thank you all for your replies!

I started back mid June.

1 day sick end of July due to migraine.

Holiday mid August...sick for 24 working days after that.

Early October left half day due to migraine.
later that week a further day off due to sinuses.

So 26 and a half days in 142 days.

Surgery time off doesn't come into this employment as they have me starting new.

Reason I have struggled this time is that the job role has changed. They now have separate teams for all of the roles I used to cover and I loved the variety and support. I am just doing 1 of these roles and when I came back I was not advised of this. I presumed it was the same/ was asked back onto role but not told role had changed significantly.

OP posts:
NotPersephone · 04/11/2021 11:01

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Crazyhouse123 · 04/11/2021 11:01

@TractorAndHeadphones

Also OP I’m confused as to what outcome you want exactly? The pay aside (which is HR being useless as usual and you should complain).

Your issues are from a bunch of things not just your disability. And the 50/50 task split was also not related to your disability. So what is the relevance especially since they haven’t attributed the sickness review to your disability at all? And you are performing on your KPI

Btw I also have adult diagnosed ADHD

I don't want an outcome I want support! I know they need to do this and I am not arguing their policies but they don't even have the right sickness details in the letter they have sent me.

The 50 50 split is directly related to my disability. I was asked what I would think would help we discussed that's what they came back work and we agreed in writing.

OP posts:
taylor3982 · 04/11/2021 11:03

The reason for

Crazyhouse123 · 04/11/2021 11:04

As far as the payment is concerned I knew that I would need to pay some back and more than happy to do so. But they took the whole lot with no notice and no discussion beforehand.

OP posts:
TractorAndHeadphones · 04/11/2021 11:06

So your absences are mostly due to physical sickness (migraine and sinuses). And 24 days for ???

What has this got to do with you struggling at your job? When you said you have been meeting KPI’s anyway?

You have two separate issues here

taylor3982 · 04/11/2021 11:10

The reason for the meeting with HR is because you have had more than 3 episodes of sickness in a sort period of time.

I also have ADHD so I understand the worry you're feeling about the meeting. You are covered by the Equality act so they do have to make reasonable adjustments for you. This meeting could be about how they can help you.

I would make sure you have a list of all your sick days and the reasons for them. If the month off was directly linked to your ADHD then you need to tell them that as that is a separate issue from the odd days off you have had. I work for the NHS and have previously been off sick for 3 months due to my ADHD and stress and during my meeting on returning to work the main things they wanted to know was how they could help me.

Starcaller · 04/11/2021 11:10

They probably use some variation of the Bradford scale and that's what has been triggered. It'll just be a standard formula and when people meet the trigger number they have to have a formal meeting. Everyone who meets the criteria will go through the same process. It should be laid out in your employee handbook/intranet.

The meeting will be to find out if there's additional support you need and whether the absences are linked to issues at work, etc. So it's a good chance to ask for any assistance you need them.

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