Help - 10 year old threatening suicide

[PanicCat]

I don’t know which thread to post in. I’m at my wits end and don’t know what to do. I’m a long time user but name changed. If someone can signpost me where to go to get help I’d appreciate it.

My 10 year old DC is a nightmare to live with and deal with. I don’t know where we’ve gone wrong.

Family life is stable and no traumas she has been through, it’s me, DH (her Dad) and DS at home. We both work full time, she has a loving extended family, lots of friends, wants for nothing.

She does exceptionally well at school, they always say what a delight she is. Academically she got exceeding expectations or whatever the top box is in every area in her last report and we are always being told how exceptional she is. She is also sporty, runs for a local club and is in a swimming team and trains twice a week. We limit sporting stuff to four times a week so she has at least one full chill day at weekends and two evenings after school with nothing on.

Everyone says what a delight she is. Other parents have said oh you are so lucky. Yet at home she is making our lives a misery.

She screams and shouts, nothing is good enough, getting her ready to go out is impossible. She screams and cries that she hates her life. This morning as her preferred pants weren’t washed she threw all her others out the bedroom window and locked herself in the bathroom screaming she hated us all. She frequently threatens to kill herself. She has tried to run away before (and took 4 year old DS with her, fortunately they didn’t even make it to the nearest main road but the intent was there).

She has huge issues around clothes and her hair and if she can’t find an outfit will refuse to go out. In order to find a pair of school shoes we ordered about £1000 worth online (having exhausted local shops), she chose a pair, wore them twice (others sent back) and then decided she hated the look of them and threw them in the bin (£50 shoes - we are comfortable financially but can’t waste money, they were retrieved and cleaned up but she is refusing to wear them now and has been wearing DM style boots to school instead!).

I asked the school if it was normal for her to behave like this at home and what we could do and was told that she is one of the best children and if only they had a school full of children like her their life would be easy and that we don’t know what difficult is. My GP said oh it’s normal for children to have temper tantrums and make threats but they don’t see what she is like.

I’m exhausted and broken over this. I don’t know what to do or who to speak to.

I'm so sorry, I don't really have any help to offer, but just wanted to send you an unMumsnetty hug. Parenting is tough, and you're doing everything you can. Hope somebody can offer some advice x

From your post nobody can give you a definitive answer but is it possible she is on the autistic spectrum or has traits and works really hard to mask during the day (typical of girls) then explodes when she gets home? Sounds eerily like my dd though I must admit I had different parenting techniques. It's certainly worth a consultation with a child psychiatrist or family therapist even if there's no underlying issues they can help you parent her - bringing up kids isn't easy

Is she feeling pressure from being academically gifted?
Clothes are a thing she thinks she can control as everything else is full on?

This sounds like some form of autistic spectrum condition. It’s very common for children (especially girls, I believe) to present as fine at school but let it all out at home due to feeling safe.

My DD 15 was similar in that she was very academic competitive and well behaved at school. Years of masking really and explosive temper occasionally at home. We cut the sports in the end as it was too much strain for her. We have seen a private psychiatrist who considered ADHD it presents differently in girls and they are often very academic etc. The sensory issues could be an ASD pointer but really you need to see a professional.
After a long day behaving all the stresses come out where she feels safe which is at home. We have had a different diagnosis in the end but my DD was very self aware and willing to explain all of her issues and feelings it might be harder with a younger child. My DD takes some medication which has helped her enormously and we have regular check ups with the psychiatrist.
This is expensive but well worth it.

It sounds awful OP.
To try and help with one issue how about having her own washing basket so her clothes don't get mixed up with everyone else's. She can help decide when she is short of clothes and can help you put a wash on and put her own clothes away. Therefore it becomes her own responsibility if she runs out of favourite clothes.
Let her wear the DMs to school unless school complains and she will have to decide what she wants to do.
Have you sat down at a quiet time and talked about her behaviour with her to see if she can find some solutions.

My first thought was ASD and she’s awesome at masking. The pressure gets too much, she’s basically working hard all the time just to exist and overthinking every single interaction or action of the day.

You say she has good friendships? Does she see friends in your home? Go to others houses? Lots of invitations, etc?

Maybe have a look at pointers for ASD specifically in girls where it presents very differently. My DD is precocious reader, exceeding at school (although not PE owing to hyper mobility) amazing at creative writing and has overwhelming amount of insight and empathy that just paralyses her.

I agree with PPs that it sounds like there are some ASD type behaviours here which she is masking at school. As a teacher, I have heard of this before but obviously never seen the home side of things.

Being very picky about clothes is a common trait in girls with ASD - does she have any sensory processing issues which you’ve noticed? Could this be at the root of the clothes issue? Can’t bear the way certain clothes feel?

Does the school have a SENCO you can talk to?

Have you tried talking through the behaviours with her when she is calm and asking what she thinks would help? Will she talk about it?

Didn’t mean to bombard you with questions. It sounds really tough.

Particularly if there are points when the clothes issue is worse - maybe look to see if there’s a pattern? For my DD issues around clothes, socks etc are usually when she’s got background anxiety about something else (because getting dressed/ putting shoes and socks on also means they’re going somewhere). That’s not to say she doesn’t have sensory issues but sometimes it’s fine if she’s not otherwise stressed.

I agree with all the pointers including sensory issues, but gave you thought that all of the extras might be too much for a 10 year old. Ask her in a moment of calm what she likes about her life and what she doesn't. Does she want to swap any activities or lessen them? If she is stressing at school, all of these extras might just be the tipping point.

This sounds like my daughter at that age (and for a while). It was an absolute nightmare and I feel for you. Even if her socks went on wrong she would completely meltdown and hate us all. It did pass and she is now a lovely 19 year old student nurse who is kind, considerate and all round great, however we do still suspect she is on the spectrum so I think it’s worth getting her tested. Hang in there, lots of love! X

My immediate thought is that she may be autistic.

I have late-diagnosed ASD and ADHD - nobody noticed a thing when I was a child even though the signs were massive and flashing 😂 I was a ‘gifted’ child, top marks, excellent school reports and coasted through work. People commented on how polite and clever and delightful I was. I masked all day so I was exhausted when I got home, which led to huge meltdowns. I had (and still have) massive sensory issues are food, textures, clothes, sounds, etc. My mum was so miserable because of my behaviour she threatened to leave.

Definitely look into it sooner rather than later so you can best support her. My life started to fall apart in secondary school when work got harder, friendships became more confusing and expectations were higher. I’ve struggled my whole life and never understood why.

Sounds exactly like my daughter, especially the issues around clothes and them having to feel right. She doesn't have ASD but has now been diagnosed with ADD. Look up the symptoms and see if it resonates with you. She is so much better now she knows what it is and why she feels that way. She's able to manage it pretty well

Thank you to everyone who has posted a reply, I'd read every single one of them and yes, I agree she possibly has ASD but know so little about it.

@gogohm you say you have different parenting techniques, I don't really mention what ours our, so hard to say what the difference might be, but interested in how you dealt with it?

@SeafrontBingo yes she has a wide range of friends and seems to make them quite easily. Often invited over to others, and we try and reciprocate here although not always easy when we both work full time but will try every few weeks to let her have a friend over for tea. She gets a lot of invitations, and often even when children are having sleepovers but are only allowed to choose one or two friends she will be one of them. As well as school friends she has friends through her sports too. She does have one main best friend but generally seems to get on well with everyone.

@AnGofsMum She does seem to have a lot of sensory issues around clothing - absolutely no labels in anything, will complain about certain fabrics, very fussy as to fit and how things look. Refuses to wear tights.

She can be very difficult around food but that is because she is a vegan. Nobody else in the family is, she announced it about 18 months ago that she had done some research and decided that it was better for the environment to be vegan. As she had very clear reasons I said I'd support it and actually she is quite good with the range of food she eats and I've got better at vegan cooking too. A friend recently cooked us all dinner and did a vegan menu for everyone. I knew it was stuff my DD didn't like as it was quite spicy but she ate everything, thanked my friend and said please do give Mummy the recipe as that was so tasty. I queried this when we got back to the car and she admitted she was just being polite and hated it. At home if I put something down she didn't like she would just kick off and refuse to even try it.

We try talking to her when she is calm and she apologises and says she was in a red mist, we ask how we can help her but she doesn't seem to know.

We try really hard to make her less big headed but she is very aware she is good at things and always refers to herself as the best. If she isn't the best at something she will cry and get very stressed (total opposite of me and my husband who really aren't competitive at all - we both do a lot of sport but I'm always happy to just finish a run, I never worry about being one of the last which I often am).

She is also very selfish and expects everything to revolve around her. If I'm trying to get out the door for work or do something she will scream and cry if I don't do what she wants right away. Or start shouting things like "Why won't you do my hair, it's because you hate me don't you? You really hate me, a real mother would do her daughters hair as soon as she was asked.". Then when she calms down she is contrite and apologises.

It's exhausting and I feel I'm on the edge of a nervous breakdown with her behaviour - as is DH.

In your shoes I would be looking at an Psychologist assessment for possible ASD. CHAMS referrals will take months, so a private assessment, if you can afford it.
You should then be given strategies and support to help all of you.

CAMHS *

OP this could have been me as a child. Is your dd happy at school? I was bullied relentlessly and whilst I performed highly and was a delight at school, I was a nightmare at home and regularly self-harmed. On reflection I’m pretty sure I have some level of asd too for various reasons.
I really hope you and your dd get the support you need.

She's masking. She's doing it more than she can cope with, hence the exploding at home.

She needs assessing so she can get.the support she needs.

I would say Autism. Girls present differently than boys and can mask symptoms. However this comes at great personal cost to themselves so can then find being out of school extremely difficult. The clothes can be a big sign of this.

Ringing bells for Asd and she is excellent at masking, hence saying the right things to friends and about the recipe.
It's typical for people with Asd to want things to be perfect, but it can be exhausting keeping this up and cause meltdowns. Managing emotions is another tricky thing with Asd, bottling it up and then it looks like they are over reacting once they release it all in one go over something that looks quite minor... Doing the hair etc.
I would look at an assessment and support groups as it sounds like your daughter is awesome and clued up but might just need some self-awareness and to understand herself, and how she can recognise her triggers. I have a son with Asd and suspect I have it too, and life just feels generally stressful even though it doesn't look like it to others, and I wish I could be laid back like others. I expect if she does have it, then she is just feeling pent up stress of having to over compensate for what others do naturally... And this results in her snapping at home

Thank you @Rrrob and sorry you went through that. She seems happy at school and never mentions being bullied, she does seem to be very popular and is at a small village school - I know all her year (single class intake so 30 children) and she has been invited to tea / days out / sleepovers by pretty much every girl in her class.

How do I get a CAMHS referral?

Either speak to the senco at school, explain that you want your daughter assessed for ASD and ask them to refer you, or speak to your GP. Or you can even do it yourself online but it has more clout if it comes from school or the GP. Expect a long waiting list though. If you can go privately, you might want to consider this.

So much of what you've written sounds just like my DS who's 8. I suspect ADD or possibly ASD with masking (which is know is more common in girls). I made a gp appt where I spoke to the gp myself over the phone. The gp referred him to camhs and someone from there phoned me a few days later. She booked me in for a triage appointment bit said they would also require a report from school. I spoke to the school but they won't support this as, in his teacher's words, he's "the class superstar".

So I did the triage appointment, the nurse was really thorough and went through lots of questions. She did state that I might not get any further without support from the school. However a letter dropped through the door a week later with an appointment for my son for 1.5 hours with a child psychiatrist.

My first contact with the GP was early October and the psychiatrist appt is mid December so only about 10 weeks. I've heard of people really struggling to even get referred so I've been really surprised at how quickly this is all happening, especially given that school isn't backing us up.

So I'd definitely suggest the GP as your first port of call and I really hope you get somewhere quickly too.