14DD has called herself 'mediocre at everything'.

[AnotheChinHair]

Her self esteem is incredibly low. She thinks she's not very good at anything really, and has no idea what to do as a job. This has been going on for 3 years now. We have tried everything we can think of, like positive talking, encouraging her to try new things, reassuring her that she doesn't need to know what job she's going to do because she has plenty of time to figure it out, highlighting evidence to the contrary of what she's saying, talking to her school, counsellors... at one point she saw an educational psychologist who suggested the possibility of inattentive adhd which sounds very plausible. Knowing this was helpful for all of us to understand her difficulties with procrastination and organisation. We have put systems in place to help her, like work only spaces in her room, private tutoring, timetables... we try to do this collaboratively so that she's part of the solution and we're not imposing things on her.

The bit I find the hardest is that she pretty much wants to do nothing to help herself. She's worried about her violin exam but won't practise, ever; and I do mean never ever. We tell her that we're going to stop paying for lessons if she doesn't practise, she gets upset, so we continue because we want her to have something she enjoys, and even if she doesn't practise that's fine, but then she puts herself through the agony of performing in front of others/exams (we do not ask her to do this), does badly, feels crap about herself. It's almost like she self-sabotages, sets herself up for failure to reinforce what she thinks of herself.

Food. She hates her body so will hide it behind baggy clothes, but will also refuse to exercise or improve her diet. I do get this, I really do. I have had my fair share of emotional eating.

She doesn't enjoy any subjects. She says she's just going through the motions in Y10 and Y11 until she can get rid of most of her subjects. But she also hates some of the ones she'll be left with. She has known she has 5 exams this week for a while, but she only started revising yesterday.

Everything she does seems like an effort to reinforce that she's dumb. For what it's worth, she's anything but. Admittedly she is not academic and maths/science is a real challenge to her, but she's extremely intuitive and intelligent.

We have tried different approaches like being involved in her organisation (she resents this massively), leaving her to it so that she builds her own desire to do well (almost 4 years and this hasn't happened, things are going from bad to worse - she was consistently top sets in primary), paying for private counselling, encouraging her to join activities outside of school. We are constantly met with resistance and a complete unwillingness to accept help or help herself.

I don't know how to help her. I appreciate that her lack of self esteem is behind this, but it is really hard to stand and watch her do nothing about it. Any thoughts?

Didn't want to read and run.

Completely agree, her self-esteem is probably at rock bottom and it's almost... paralysing her ability to even try. And, there's the added factor of feeling frustrated and embarrassed at being bad at something (e.g. she probably knows she needs to practice her violin to get better, but it feels like an uphill struggle to get through the "I am crap at this" stage without instant results).

With violin practice, could you keep it to a tiny little segment of time - honestly like 10mins a day - so she gets in a habit?

This is going to sound weird, but how does your DD fare with incentivisation? She doesn't have to have her life and subjects mapped out yet, but would she respond well to a targeting certain grades for some sort of treat / payoff (and hopefully by that point a good habit will have formed). I know this is not the healthiest behaviour either, but it's how many of my friends were incentivised to achieve well during their GCSEs etc!

Oh it does sound tricky!

It sounds like you are very involved, and maybe it is good to give her more space?

My teens need lots of space to figure stuff out

About being mediocre, I’d not give a list of arguments why she is brilliant (even if she is) but maybe even say that most people are mediocre and that that is fine, and most people end up with a job that suits them, she’s still very young to worry about this

As to self esteem, by just treating her as an (almost) grown up, by actively seeking her company, her advice, her help, by making it clear you enjoy spending time with her, her self confidence may grow. It’s not what you say, as such, but the fact that you and her dad enjoy her company and are interested in her opinions that will help her grow

Obviously, that is all just from my own very limited experience

Good luck

Having brought a DD with inattentive ADD into young adulthood (and having it passed on to her): What from the outside looks like an unwillingness to help herself is actually an ADD symptom. She knows what has to be done but is actually competely unable to do it.

It might be worth her looking into developing a growth mentality. There’s lots of stuff online on this. It’s not about being good and bad at stuff. It’s about developing perseverance and getting better at stuff.

I’d remind her that certain achievements get a lot of attention and give people status but there are plenty of other really important qualities that don’t get the same attention.

I’d also focus on finding things that really spark her interest and give her things to look forward to. So random things like concerts, theatre, things that expand her horizons.

Could she get a part time job? My DD just has and it’s made a world of difference to her confidence.

Knowing that you love her and want to spend time with her will also help more than you know

This sounds exactly like my 15 year old.
She recently met with a counsellor and is going to have some sessions with them.
I have been considering having her assessed for autism/Aspergers but hadn't considered ADD.
I completely understand how you feel OP.
I am increasingly worried about her mental health. She is just so negative about herself and her prospects in the world. It's wearing me down.

Often successs to not give us that joyful feeling - this 'reward' system does not work for a lot of us because of the different chemical metabolism in the brain.
On the other hand every negative experience, every instance of getting it wrong socially will be remembered.

I took parenting courses before my DC were diagnosed and wondered why the methods did not work. Then they got diagnosed and I took courses aimed at parents of AS / ADD children.

Thank you everyone for your answers. Just wanted to address @MarleneDietrichsSmile, the bit about giving her space. Honestly we have done that, only to find months down the line that she was literally staring at her computer all day long without following lessons (2nd lockdown). I do think you make an excellent point about showing her that she is liked.

@Prokupatuscrakedatus

Having brought a DD with inattentive ADD into young adulthood (and having it passed on to her): What from the outside looks like an unwillingness to help herself is actually an ADD symptom. She knows what has to be done but is actually competely unable to do it.

Absolutely this ⬆️

I would seriously consider having her assessed for ADHD/ADD. My dd (14) has just been diagnosed with ADHD and it all sounds very familiar. She gets so frustrated as she has the ability and the desire to do well but her ADHD prevents her achieving it. I also recognise it in myself so strongly suspect I also have ADHD.

This was me even down to the violin. No advice really, I would have wanted my parents to do what you're doing really, but that's in hindsight. I don't know. I am much better at finishing stuff and have found my own talents but only since I moved out and just found my own way after living in the real world, paying bills etc.

I would identify skills she's good at rather than whole subjects or disciplines. Things like detail or big picture focused, good at summarising info or spotting patterns etc. That can help boost confidence across multiple subjects e.g. "I'm no good at science but actually I am good at picking the key points out of a textbook so maybe I'm ok!"

As someone who played multiple instruments during my teenage years, I used to hate practicing when people could hear and would hate my family commenting. I would suggest allowing her somewhere private to practice and not comment ever on what she's doing - you wear headphones if needs be or go out.
Violin is a good skill that a lot of her friends won't be doing so it's a good way to boost confidence but she needs to find it herself. Maybe try to find a good role model to give her a one of lesson so she has something to aspire to - perhaps someone who plays jazz or folk style to show her there are other opportunities out there.

I should add low self esteem is often a by product of ADHD

At about that age I switched from a classical violin teacher to a guy who was more focused on folk music/ bluegrass etc.
And also changed focus from working towards exams to playing for fun/pleasure.
It took a lot of pressure off and made it a fun activity for me again.

I failed all my A Levels because I did that staring at a screen thing and was historically an OK student so no one helped me. It was like a paralysis of procrastination. It's good your DD is telling you how she feels, I wouldn't have been able to do that as my mum wasn't really emotionally available.

@Bekind2yourself
I only found out that it was me who had provided my DC with AS/ADD and ADD / AS when they were diagnosed and our family history was checked by the team.
What I thought were totally normal behaviours, feelings and reactions in my DC were actually only normal from my experience.
It was a relief to find out that I am not the deficient and socially unbearable person I thought I was.

@Bekind2yourself, yes, I strongly suspect I have it too. But I am just wondering, apart from self-knowledge, how does having a diagnosis of inattentive ADHD help?

@Prokupatuscrakedatus I agree. We also think DH has it too. So looking through our own lens everything appeared ‘normal’ . It’s only now we realise not everyone approaches things the way we do.

@AnotheChinHair there are many wonderful things about having ADHD. It’s just knowing our DD has ADHD means we can support her in different ways

@AnotheChinHair
For self esteem- we have involved the school (which is much easier with a formal diagnosis). The teachers are more attentive to her self esteem and boosting her confidence

@AnotheChinHair we are staring the medication route which will help with her concentration/focus, working memory and emotions

• starting

An early diagnose helped me to put systems in place to reduce the stress in my DCs lives. (I had an 8 year old that did not want to 'be there' any longer and was told to 'not expect much of her')
I took special parenting courses and changed and restructured our days (including restructuring lessons) while working FT. They had courses aimed at teaching them to handle their brains, structure their days, courses in coping socially.
DD has to work so incredibly hard just to appear 'normal' and handle everyday life.

I think having the official diagnosis might help as even though you have a sort of diagnosis right now it's easy to think well that's nothing definite maybe I am just mediocre at everything after all. She may also be entitled to accommodations at school and in college or a future job. There is also the possibility of medication even if you would prefer not to use it due to potential side effects at least she can make an informed decision about that when she is older.
Another thing is to look at philosophies where achievement and worldly success is not the important thing it is in our society today, as well as some of our modern subcultures that are about self acceptance and tolerance and thinking outside the mainstream. Parents don't usually introduce us to those but it might help her to know that you want her to find a good path in life for her, even if it's something a bit different.

I agree with comment about telling her that actually, 'mediocre' is OK. Trying to convince yourself that you are brilliant at things when you have low self esteem is a huge mountain to climb, and, frankly, might not even be true and she can see that. But convincing yourself that you're OK, that most people aren't brilliant either, that you can still get somewhere in life and be happy, might be a much more achievable goal.

i used to hate the growth mindset stuff, to be honest. It all felt very artificial to me, and like I was denying my real feelings or opinions (I know that much of it can come down to how it's presented, and there are some good aspects of it too). But often, I just wanted to be heard that I felt like I was bad at something, or hadn't lived up to my own standards, and just wanted a bit of sympathy or a listening ear, rather than someone trying to encourage me and make me say that I wasn't good at it yet, but I would be, or that this bit went badly in a performance but wasn't that other bit good, etc. I'd get even more negative when around someone like that! So maybe it could be worth not trying to change her feelings about herself, but just listening and accepting how she feels. With things like violin that are her own choice, she will have to make the decision about whether to practice or not - she already knows it will help, so doesn't need reminding really. If you can set up the right environment so she has a quiet place and time, then it is up to her to use it. But perhaps hold back on connecting her feelings about being back to the fact that she's not practiced, and just let her be honest about how she feels - listening unconditionally without trying to change her/things.

Mediocre is average and there's nothing wrong with average. It means you're in the middle and whoever you are there are always going to be people better and people worse.

I would try to get her in a routine with the violin. My ds has ASD and it really works for him - structure and routine. It means I have to be quite involved which he doesn't necessarily appreciate but I tell him what he needs to do and for how long and then leave him too it. So I would say from 5:45 - 6pm practice one of your pieces and do your scales. Knowing exactly what he has to do and how long it will take means he knows where to start and isn't overwhelmed by it. At 15 it is the approach I'm taking with revising too and it works very well (although may be different for a teen with ADD rather than ASD).

The other thing you could do is print off what she needs to do in the time and she can tick it off as she does it (she could also do this herself if she has the motivation). The ticking each item off makes her feel she has achieved something and keeps her focussed on what she needs to do.

You have a lot going on here.
You need to deal with them seperatly, although they are all inter-twined.

Anxiety makes me so sad to hear in teen dd's. Speak to GP for counselling? speak to school re a different school counsellor? Go private in the meantime if you can afford it?

Ask Gp for ADHD referal. Get a diagnosis. speak to senco at school. see what she can put into place in the meantime. Has she got processing issues aswell? she should/could be given extra time in exams, but you need to set it up now, there need to be evidence, so senco can get it arranged int time for GCSE exams. Please action this now, asap, do nto delay ay all, because it requires time to set up. What's the worst that can happen?

Being mediocre is ok. I am mediocre at most things. certain things I'm fabulous at, but not many. Never been a problem to me.