If you have a good degree from a good university but have NMW, why?

[SisforSoppy]

As per the question. Following on from another thread, but also because I have a relative who got a 1st with distinction from an RG uni who post children chose a NMW job because she said she couldn’t find anything else that fitted with childcare. (Although mostly, I think, because she wanted to be a SAHM, and couldn’t be arsed with the challenges of combining a career with motherhood but needed a little bit of extra money). I was a bit , but it seems there are a lot of people like this, so I’m trying to understand why.

Ive not read whole thread but will reread

I hate feeling judged for not having a good job. I hate struggling financially. Id love to know how you get thesd jobs! It seems one extreme or the other sometimes.

My degree has never really been relevant to my career, I did have a 'better' (ie; higher paid, better perks etc)) job in my 20s/30s but I was lucky enough not to have to work full time and I put lifestyle first ... I now work part time for just over NMW but for a job that I genuinely love, I work for a charity that I strongly believe in, I really enjoy what I do ... I could probably retire but I will carry on doing what I love.

Because life is too short to spend it working 40/50/60 hour weeks for other people.

I have a degree from an RG university and run my own businesses as a professional dog walker. I earn around £300-500 a week working about 25 hours on average.

My mental health is better, my work/life balance is excellent and I get to spend
my days outdoors surrounded by dogs, not cooped up inside surrounded by people

@icedcoffees

Because life is too short to spend it working 40/50/60 hour weeks for other people.

I have a degree from an RG university and run my own businesses as a professional dog walker. I earn around £300-500 a week working about 25 hours on average.

My mental health is better, my work/life balance is excellent and I get to spend
my days outdoors surrounded by dogs, not cooped up inside surrounded by people

That's not NMW...

Interesting.

I found it wasn't always so much the degree, or the match of a student's performance to the result, that was meaningful for earnings. With hindsight the first job or jobs were crucial, in the window of being a recent graduate before having entries on the CV and commitments other than just yourself (kids especially) - which leads to making choices that can't be totally magicked away by money. So be careful of too much sneering over frog grooming (well, perhaps dog grooming and canine therapy) - it depends a lot on how you then lever yourself and what you can do to develop and become 'indispensable' in the position you get.

The graduate schemes and training for them were pushed heavily by the university careers service. Most other things were dismissed a bit. I was interested in publishing at the time, and every single careers talk and advice had the tone of 'It is really competitive, you must get experience' - sometimes so close to 'Try another industry.' Good if you can afford to volunteer, be an intern, or do meaningful voluntary work - or even take 6 months, on company timescales, going through 2 assessment centres and interview rounds, but an average stop gap job to pay the bills isn't such an open door. What is it that the higher potential employers select on? Institution matters a bit. Academic results not enormously, unless you are going for academia, and even then, retention for early career research and PHDs is very low, around 70 per cent leaving the sector after 3.5 years (www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/02/17/the-employment-of-phd-graduates-in-the-uk-what-do-we-know/).

I also only realise now, that recruiters will often benchmark a 'suitable' salary by the one you are on, so if this starts out higher in earlier jobs, this may be in your favour.

It's her life and it's what was best for her and her family at the time. I work in a shop and actually know two members of staff who have degrees - they worked part-time with us while studying, couldn't get the job they wanted after their degree, so stayed and work full-time.

@Ormally

Interesting.

I found it wasn't always so much the degree, or the match of a student's performance to the result, that was meaningful for earnings. With hindsight the first job or jobs were crucial, in the window of being a recent graduate before having entries on the CV and commitments other than just yourself (kids especially) - which leads to making choices that can't be totally magicked away by money. So be careful of too much sneering over frog grooming (well, perhaps dog grooming and canine therapy) - it depends a lot on how you then lever yourself and what you can do to develop and become 'indispensable' in the position you get.

The graduate schemes and training for them were pushed heavily by the university careers service. Most other things were dismissed a bit. I was interested in publishing at the time, and every single careers talk and advice had the tone of 'It is really competitive, you must get experience' - sometimes so close to 'Try another industry.' Good if you can afford to volunteer, be an intern, or do meaningful voluntary work - or even take 6 months, on company timescales, going through 2 assessment centres and interview rounds, but an average stop gap job to pay the bills isn't such an open door. What is it that the higher potential employers select on? Institution matters a bit. Academic results not enormously, unless you are going for academia, and even then, retention for early career research and PHDs is very low, around 70 per cent leaving the sector after 3.5 years (www.hepi.ac.uk/2020/02/17/the-employment-of-phd-graduates-in-the-uk-what-do-we-know/).

I also only realise now, that recruiters will often benchmark a 'suitable' salary by the one you are on, so if this starts out higher in earlier jobs, this may be in your favour.

It's not difficult to get into graduate schemes for large employers if you know how they work. It's rolling basis, not the best candidates for many schemes so whoever gets in quickest wins. Video interviews, assessment centre etc lots of advice available online from people who already did it. You can even team up with friends and share notes.

For passing interviews competencies matter. Part-time job, work experience, volunteering etc the point is you must demonstrate all of what's required. None of these experience types are superior. The key is presenting your skills in a way that enables the recruiter to pick out what they need. They all have scoring sheets based on the company's values and behaviours and you want to aim for a tick next to each.

Finally you can apply for schemes even before you graduate.

There are plenty of people from good unis who have done zero outside of study. Equally people from 'non-RG' unis who have packed well written CV's.

Know the rules of the game, talk to as many people as possible, research, plan, practice practice practice. That's it really. Of course this is assuming no major backstory or other issues.

It's not difficult to get into graduate schemes for large employers if you know how they work.

I don't, and didn't, want to. I'm just saying that was the only area that was pushed at the point of seeking early career advice.

It's not difficult to get into graduate schemes for large employers if you know how they work.

I think this is a bit disingenuous. I failed to get into any graduate scheme. I still can’t get a job in the civil service. I fail the situational judgement test every time. I have a first class degree from the best university in the country for my subject. Maybe I don’t “know the rules of the game”.

I would not worry too much. If she is clever she will figure it out if the marriage fails. Do not underestimate the benefits of being there for the kids on early years. It is a great investment of your time. I wish everyone who wants to do this could.

@Lemonsyellow

It's not difficult to get into graduate schemes for large employers if you know how they work.

I think this is a bit disingenuous. I failed to get into any graduate scheme. I still can’t get a job in the civil service. I fail the situational judgement test every time. I have a first class degree from the best university in the country for my subject. Maybe I don’t “know the rules of the game”.

I failed all of my summer internship applications at various parts, went to my uni career service's copious workshops on each stage. Passed all of the same for graduate roles and got offered a few jobs. Getting a first class degree doesn't guarantee that you know the rules. I happily admit that I'm not better than anybody else. I was just well trained on what they were looking for. Of course my older colleagues don't know what all of this is about as according to them they had an interview, nice chat with the hiring manager and got the job in the good old days.

I will say though that I'm quite lucky as my university was quite on the ball. And there were plenty of people who had gone through the same thing I did, so I could draw on their experiences.

@Ormally fair enough - but out of interest what did your uni do for early career advice?
Mine had various fairs for everything big employers to nonprofits and startups. Also workshops for specific things. But nobody sat us down and told us what to do. The only guidance they gave all graduates was to talk to as many people as possible. Explore and see what's out there. Again where I am today (in a field different from my degree) was the result of something other people told me.

It's really not the same across unis though. All DP's uni had was a couple of CV workshops, and one career fair. There wasn't a lot of advice on how to find/make your own opportunities as well.

I am an underachiever career wise (1st Russell Group and postgrad) especially when I compare myself to peers who have worked & progressed in full time careers. I had a period as a SAHM when my children were pre-school and then part-time since. This limits what I can achieve career wise for now but 1) I'm happy 2) I get lots of time with my children 3) I'm fortunate that my financial circumstances are very sound (despite my p/t pay being peanuts) & this is ironclad even if DH & I split (though I/we are both happy in the marriage) 4) I still have years I can work longer hours when the children are grown 5) I'm naturally inclined to be lazy.

So OP I would say keep your judgemental nose out. People can lead their lives how they want and who's to say your idea of a fulfilled life is the same as theirs!

@TractorAndHeadphones yes, I know, but it's very much a job that's looked down upon and treated as such.

Heard pf the glass ceiling? Well there is also a sticky floor. Jobs which are female dominated often have few routes for progression, so you are stuck there with a job you quite like.
My degree is a bit crap, so I’m not one to answer your question personally, but I found it very easy to get stuck in a dead end job which was useful and rewarding, but no progression opportunities.

I dislike the idea of a tiny bit more effort
I think that’s hugely judgemental. She has found something which works for her.

Has she told you that she’ll be seeking a family whip-round if her marriage fails? Or is it possible that if that happens she’ll respond to it and deal with it?

You come across as feeling she owes the family to be more successful. Is she happy? Are her kids happy? Isn’t that enough when so many aren’t?

@fournonblondes

I would not worry too much. If she is clever she will figure it out if the marriage fails. Do not underestimate the benefits of being there for the kids on early years. It is a great investment of your time. I wish everyone who wants to do this could.

I agree, it's never too late to retrain &get other qualifications when the kids are older. I did, I prob would have done even if I hadn't become a single parent but life changes all the time and so do your options. Nothing is set in stone for which way to go and you find your own way if you really want it. (And I have a degree)

What's a first with distinction?

But you know absolutely nothing about this relative's private life.
Maybe she's been diagnosed with an incurable, chronic condition and she simply can't physically manage a 'big, important job'.
Maybe one of her children has additional needs, and couldn't cope with wraparound childcare.
Maybe she's doing a NMW job, such as social care or a support role in education, because she thinks that it's ethically and morally more valuable than a big, important job.

I find it sad when people are judged by what job they do. Nmw is not linked to intelligence.