Air source heat pumps - a bit off putting, or is it just me?

[FolornLawn]

I was surprised to see how big and ugly they are.

This article shows a picture of one, and I wouldn't want it in my small garden. Also the report says people will need room for a boiler and a water cylinder.

I'm quite surprised at how negatively I feel about the new plans. There's something about having to remodel bits of my house and garden that feels like an imposition, when I happily recycle, use washable sanitary pads and kitchen roll, go without a tumble dryer etc. Is it just me?

In fact at present there is a huge shortage of any kind of builders/ workers and heating engineers for any kind of work in some parts of the UK. I certainly will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to changing my gas boiler system and would guess with such a big house, 23 radiators, 2 gas boilers and in a conservation area even if planning allowed it (unlikely as even solar panels are banned) I doubt I would give me much change out of £100,000 particularly if we had do to things with windows and perhaps under the floor and including costs of repairs as these new things all break down much more than gas boilers and do not last as long.

@Xenia you are lucky as you are probably mortgage free so they can't do much to you. It's your children who have to worry about upgrading it to possibly sell it after you pass on but maybe for a house at that level, it doesn't matter as much as it may be pocket change for whoever can afford to buy it. I have a mortgage and have to worry about it if it is linked to the mortgage.

Though if they impose high gas tariffs so we all switch to this new system (probably cos more than half of all properties in UK don't have a mortgage), everyone will be affected.

I suspect these plans have been revealed now so that we can get all the moaning and groaning over before getting rid of gas boilers becomes mandatory.

There was similar wailing and gnashing of teeth when it was originally suggested that we should switch over to electric cars. Now, the Tesla Model 3 is the UK’s biggest seller.

All it will take is for gas to cost more than electricity per kW and people will be beating a path to the heat pump vendors’ doors.

The Tesla was the biggest selling individual model in September but still pure petrol and diesel were 50% of new car sales and another big chunk were mild hybrids - full electric are still only 15% of sales. And of course that's the new car market, seconf hand is quite different.

But the situation with electric cars actually matches the heat pump situation pretty well. For some people an electric car is a fairly easy swap - they can afford the extra upfront outlay and they have either the ability to charge at home or they have good charging infrastructure. These will geberally be wealthier people, mostly living in houses rather than flats with on street parking.

The same is true of heat pumps. Some people have the money to pay for the higher upfront costs and a property which can accomodate in fairly well. Others live in places where they will really struggle to do it practically, can't afford it, or both.

In both cases there will be people who can't make the change and who will end up being financially penalised for it

@StatisticallyChallenged Re charging infrastructure, there are a lot of charge points where i live in London, surely that would be sufficient if you want to go electric? I don't have a car though but I would probably get an electric one if i got one even though i live in a flat as there are charge points and there will probably be more in future.

There's very little in central Edinburgh, lots of places are much further behind than London. The council recently announced they'd installed 66, about half of which were at edge of the city park and ride sites. In many places if you don't have offroad parking the infrastructure isn't there. We had a PHEV living in town but only managed because we had resident parking permit so could park right outside and run a cable out the front door - we weren't allowed to install a proper charger because it was a conservation area (you can see why an ASHP wouldn't be allowed then )

*I don't disagree with some of what you've said but if you don't mind my asking, how much gas do you use to heat your four bedroomed detached home?

How many of you live there, and what's the floor area?*

@shedofdread Sorry for the delay in responding. Unfortunately the E.ON app doesn't work on my cutting-edge Nokia 6310 so I had to wait for my wife to stump up the actual figures rather than guess. Our quarterly gas usage is as follows:

Three months to November 2020 - 25.4 kWh
Three months to February 2021 - 64 kWh
Three months to May 2021 - 53.9 kWh
Three months to August 2021 - 18.4 kWh

The heating is set to 22 celsius from 0500 to 0800 upstairs, and to 21 celsius from 1800 to 2200 upstairs. It is set to 21.5 celsius downstairs for an hour longer in the morning, and 22 celsius downstairs two hours earlier in the afternoon. If it drops below 19 at any time downstairs during the day, or 17 upstairs, then it comes back on to stop it falling any further. It would have to be very cold (below 6/7 celsius outside) for this to happen.

We're two adults and two children (aged four and one). The house is occupied all day. My wife was on mat leave last winter so the upstairs zone didn't need really to stay comfortable all day; now that she is back working from home I'd expect to have to run the heating upstairs more often.

Also probably worth adding that I was born and raised in the tropics and despite living here for 25 years I do not tolerate cold well. It is just not realistic for me to put thermals on to cope with 17 or 18 celsius indoors if I still can't grip a pen, or a knife, or change a nappy, because my hands are completely numb.

The house is 126 square meters which is something like 1360 square feet. All windows are double glazed due east or west facing, and the winter weather here tends to comes from the west, straight into the front porch and living room bay window (which is a dreadful thing in every respect). External walls are brick and thermoblock with rockwool cavity insulation. All internal walls are thermoblock with gypsum over. The boiler is a condensing one, nothing special, powering 15 radiators. There is a waste water heat exchanger too.

Hope this helps.

Sorry, should have clarified that the kWh figures are the daily average for the quarter, not the total!

I can't see many older people buying these, if they have the money they will be wanting to save it in case they need a non urgent operation, I know we are certainty keeping savings aside in case we need it for this

There’s nowhere to put one of those boxes in my garden. The back of the house is covered by a glass bifold door virtually side to side. There isn’t room for a big box and there must be thousands of houses like mine?

My neighbour has installed one as part of his house renovation, it's not finished so he isn't using it yet but my main concern is how noisy it might be. A few things I've read say that it's no noisier than a boiler, but that the difference is that boilers only fire when you are using them, while the pumps go on/off at random times in the night etc. He's tried to be considerate by installing the unit a few metres from the house but they are small houses and gardens and I'm really worried that we will hear it from our bedroom. Fingers crossed we don't.

There’s nowhere to put one of those boxes in my garden. The back of the house is covered by a glass bifold door virtually side to side. There isn’t room for a big box and there must be thousands of houses like mine?

If you were offered one for free with ten years free electricity to run it, would you be able to find space?

No. Because I live in a terraced house and I have a bifold door that goes across the whole kitchen at the back, there’s about 6 inches of wall either side, then the fence.

There isn't enough £5k grants for everyone to have one anyway

@Marelle

No. Because I live in a terraced house and I have a bifold door that goes across the whole kitchen at the back, there’s about 6 inches of wall either side, then the fence.

I'm pretty sure that there are models which can be wall-mounted.

@Otherpeoplesteens those numbers are really interesting, do you know what your electricity usage is?

Like this (pic from Google). Where would the box go?

I'm pretty sure that there are models which can be wall-mounted.
Wall mounted where? In mid air above the bifold door?

Don't they need to be on the ground for servicing, they are a bit big for a wall,

Maybe in a few years they might get smaller like mobile phones did

[quote Daftasabroom]@Otherpeoplesteens those numbers are really interesting, do you know what your electricity usage is?[/quote]
As it happens, I do. Same periods as gas figures above, daily average:

to Nov 2020 - 6.9 kWh
to Feb 2021 - 7.8 kWh
to May 2021 - 10.8 kWh
to Aug 2021 - 10.7 kWh

It goes up in summer because 1) we have a fridge and freezer in the (unheated) garage which have to work a bit harder and 2) we regularly have to air-condition one of the DC's bedrooms. Brilliant insulation combined with unshaded east- and west-facing windows translates to spectacular solar gain which is difficult to shed naturally before young children's bedtimes. Eldest's room still has the sun shining into it at 8.30pm in May/June/July.

The builders helpfully fitted outward-opening windows everywhere so external shutters or blinds can't be added without replacing them all, even if Bloor Homes as the freeholder allowed us to, which they won't.

The idea of a reversible air to air heat pump is appealing for the aircon aspect if not for the installation and making all the central heating plumbing redundant, but a £300 portable unit does the job well enough at the moment.

@Marelle

Like this (pic from Google). Where would the box go?

Is that a wall to the right (garden wall?)

Several of my neighbours are on garden rather than house wall

My house has fences on both sides. I couldn’t find a photo with two fences. I literally have a back wall that’s filled with a bifold.

www.components-direct.com/component-and-fastener-products/air-source-heat-pump-wall-mounting-brackets

For comparison- our annual kwh are 10,080 electric and 700 kwh gas (think this is an over estimate, need to check). We have an ASHP hybrid system so there's a gas boiler to boost which doesn't see much action. All appliances are electric.

House is 220 square metre, 4 people, constantly heated as I'm wfh.