Male security at LHR asked my 15 daughter to take off her hoodie when she was travelling alone

[sofato5miles]

Am i over reacting? She was upset. She had a large but thin hoodie on and only a strappy top underneath. No female officers and she was properly unnerved by it. She was flying home alone for half term. She is a shy but capable girl. My gut feeling if she felt uncomfortable it was because something felt wrong. WWYD? Would you make an official complaint?

I have spoken to her about finding her voice before ( though in this specific case, requestiing a female officer). The hoodie was mostly zipped but you could see her straps.

@HollyandIvyandAllThingsYule

Victim blaming isn’t the correct term it’s true since there’s no victim. However bandying about shaming language and ideas is very relevant - it doesn’t matter whether thousands or millions of other teenagers are perfectly fine and comfortable in strappy tops, it’s still okay for this teenager not to be fine and comfortable with it.

Then why wear one? Why even own one if you don't want to be seen in it? It's not hard to work out that circumstances may well arise where you need to take off the hoodie, e.g. if it's hot or if something gets spilt on it.

Have none of you ever flown before?.

She was asked to removed her hoodie. Many people are body conscious for myriad reasons and would feel uncomfortable removing an item of clothing unexpectedly.

But why is it unexpected? I would class a loose garment with a hood as an outer garment, and indeed when I wear one it tends to be a compromise when I'm not sure about the weather, or when I'm going somewhere I know will be warm but want something easy to wear on my way there. If I was going on a flight it wouldn't come as any sort of surprise to be asked to take off an outer layer.

@Xenia
'Happened to me a lot when flying alone at Heathrow (our nearest air port) and I always wear just a vest top under my work jacket. It does feel rather exposed and I would prefer we increased the risk of terrorist attack than had quite a few of the measures we have in place but sadly most people do not agree with me. I really don't think a complaint is needed here.'
You'd ...'prefer we increased the risk of terror attack'?

This is going round in circles like the charity shop changing mat one with the Op long gone and everyone still arguing that toss until the thread is full!
🤣🤣🤣

sofato5miles
I had something similar happen because I was with a friend she felt the same so it wasn’t just me. She had to remove the outer layer her blouse in front of a long line of bored mainly men . I had to take my beanie hat and a top. We just didn’t want to be unpeeling layers in front of quite bored men who saw it as entertainment . It did feel quite humiliating tbh.We were travelling from Berlin. I travelled with a group of friends on the Eurostar and the only one out of us who was stopped searched and his luggage inspected to an inch of its life. He was the only person with dark skin and he was gracious about it but I was fuming I just felt like it was a dream job for racists . I think it’s just a lesson of be prepared so that you have a little more control over your layers complaints wise I don’t think there is much that can be achieved its more if a lesson learnt scenario but I completely empathise with your daughter being told to remove a layer by a man in front of people is embarrassing. Just don’t ever hang out at Dubai airport is my advice plenty of sleazy men there following u around the airport while your in a tracksuit ??!?

I’m not going to discuss it any further either since it’s getting just ridiculous - I don’t know if people are just thick or if they’re being deliberately obtuse, but either way the daughter doesn’t need to get a grip for being uncomfortable/feeling exposed or vulnerable in the situation, and she did nothing wrong by talking about it to her mum. The amount of ‘well! She should have known better’ or ‘she has no right to feel uncomfortable since she chose to wear X’ or ‘she needs to get a grip’ and whatnot on this thread is frankly quite disgusting. We’re talking about a young girl here who felt exposed because a man asked her to remove an item of clothing. She did absolutely nothing wrong in the situation, and in order for young women to be safer from predators they should absolutely be able to discuss these situations without feeling like they should just shut up about things that make them feel uncomfortable. But I really shouldn’t expect the vast majority of people to understand the nuances since so many people here prove over and over that they really aren’t capable of understanding (or, in fact, they don’t want to).

I don’t believe in standards of adulthood being applied to teenagers who might not have the experience or understanding to foresee things and I think the sniffy, shaming, blaming attitudes are entirely uncalled for. But luckily I don’t need to discuss it further since as pp has said, OP won’t be doing anything stupid like putting in a complaint.

Monday night calls and I’m going to settle in for some peace and quiet and enjoy a glass or two of wine. Cheers everyone!

(Of course it’s really not a huge issue anyway since the daughter isn’t here to hear what’s being said. But the way we view and talk about girls and women who feel uncomfortable in situations with men when it comes to bodily autonomy is very important. It’s no good professing that girls should be allowed to express concern and talk about situations where they feel weird or vulnerable, but then turning around and using pejorative language and making out that they’re stupid when they do speak up. No, they’re not. They’re entitled to those feelings and they’re entitled to having them taken seriously. Even if they’re ‘overreacting’ or ‘should’ve known better’ or ‘could have chosen to wear something else’)

Anyway that wine is calling out to me!

Ive had to remove a zipped hoodie before at Bristol airport.

Security just doing their job. At least she will know to travel in a t shirt she feels comfortable in for future trips.

Whilst this might not have been pleasant you need to consider the alternative. Security does not do their job and somebody gets through with something they should not have on a plane.

You are right in encouraging her to find her voice and ask for a female member of staff to accompany if she felt uncomfortable.

If she’s maturer enough to fly in her own at 15 then she should be able to speak up. If that’s not an option then she’ll have to reconsider what she’s wears in future. He wasn’t to know she didn’t have a thick jumper underneath.

Yes - it's very common to have to remove bulky jumpers and tops. I had to remove a thin cardigan once which was a bit floaty and I guess looked like a coat?

I do remember trying to explain in a foreign airport (Portugal maybe?) that the belt I was wearing was attached to my skirt, and I couldn’t take it off or I’d be standing there in my underwear! It was totally my own fault though.
I do understand why a teenage girl would be awkward though. Lesson learned for next time op, and I hope it hasn’t put her off travelling.

Bulky clothing and heeled shoes/ boots always to be removed . Standard protocol

I completely empathise with your daughter being told to remove a layer by a man in front of people is embarrassing

But it isn't. Loads of people in aircraft security queues are asked to remove their outer layer, it's only embarrassing if you've only got underwear on beneath, but in that event you just need to ask if you can go somewhere private. If you're wearing a standard strappy top then there is absolutely no need to be embarrassed.

We’re talking about a young girl here who felt exposed because a man asked her to remove an item of clothing. She did absolutely nothing wrong in the situation

Why is so significant that it was a man? It could easily have been a woman with exactly the same result. What is certain is that he did absolutely nothing wrong either.

I don’t believe in standards of adulthood being applied to teenagers who might not have the experience or understanding to foresee things

If a 15 year old is that vulnerable, perhaps her parents should think more carefully before letting her travel on her own.

I don't fly v much so can't tell you if it's standard practice, however, I don't think it's reasonable that there are no female officers for teenage girls. I think there should be and perhaps airlines should be required to change their practices - I think that all institutions should re-appraise their attitude of men in positions of authority towards women in general, and young/vulnerable women in particular (sorry - thread creep!)

@FeeLock

I don't fly v much so can't tell you if it's standard practice, however, I don't think it's reasonable that there are no female officers for teenage girls. I think there should be and perhaps airlines should be required to change their practices - I think that all institutions should re-appraise their attitude of men in positions of authority towards women in general, and young/vulnerable women in particular (sorry - thread creep!)

As several frequent Heathrow users have pointed out, including somebody well upthread who works at LHR security, there will have been at least one female security operator at the screening channel, quite possibly more..

They might not have been the operator actually asking people to remove their outer layers prior to being scanned but there will have been one stood a handful of meters away at the archway scanner. They are there to do “pat downs” on any female staff/passengers who need one- that’s pretty much the standard world wide.

“perhaps airlines should be required to change their practices”

The airlines (generally) don’t do or control passenger security screening, the provision of that is usually down to the airport authorities.

It might also have to do with the bulk of an outer layer that shows up on the xray machine...for some reason, my armpits always trigger ....even when I only have on a thin sleeved top...I finally asked why this was the case and the TSA employee told me about the bulky fabric in the armpits area...glad to know it wasn't caused by my lack of shaving my pits!
They also swipe my hands for gun powder if I have my service animal with me...asked about that, said it was because rotten people could use animals to smuggle explosives..