Is it ever excusable to be horrible to your friends?

[Thepennysjustdropped]

Can I vent, please. (Long, sorry.) I moved to a village six years ago. Joined a group of women who go out walking, for meals, etc. They are all lovely and I view them as friends, apart from the organiser. She is very clever, and intimidating, reminds me of Margaret Thatcher but is a big mover & shaker locally, knows everyone, and without her efforts there would be a lot less going on here. Over the years she has several times been blunt to the point of rudeness to my face and within my hearing about me to others. The people she was talking to didn't say anything. Uncalled-for remarks that would be best left unsaid. (Not only me - e.g. I once heard her talking about someone else, saying that she lives in "a horrible little house". What's the point of saying that? It's a nice little cottage.) Once when I heard her bitch about me I pulled her up on it - "What did you mean by that, Margaret?" but she just gave me a big smile and ignored the question. But the funny thing is that despite everyone knowing about these comments, people make excuses for her and more than once I've heard her described as 'vulnerable'. I want to get on with her and have stood up for her when I thought she was being unfairly treated. I found myself with her a couple of months ago and she was charming and interesting. Great.

Fast forward to yesterday, when she was grumpy with everyone and then had what I can only describe as a tantrum with me (I may post separately about this!). She said something ridiculous and stormed out. It is a very long time since I've seen an adult behave like that and I was embarrassed. Someone took me aside and said, "I probably shouldn't tell you this but about six years ago her DH had an affair. Maybe something's happened again?" Then this morning I got a phone call from someone else, asking about the tantrum, "WTF happened?" When I told her, she said "Well, don't let her get to you.That's just Margaret. I've gone off her DH too, but that's a whole other story." I didn't push it as I don't want to be seen as a gossip and would prefer not to have to keep secrets. But it's just occurred to me that everyone knows and is making allowances. But we are supposed to all be friends. It's not on, is it?

No it’s not at all. She’s a massive arsehole.

I have personal problems but I’m not a cow and I don’t take them out on other people.

I’d alway pull up someone like her. For many reasons, people don’t. Life’s too short for shitty behaviour.

Hmmm, it does sound difficult. If you’ve heard her described as ‘vulnerable’ though then I think she probably has some past trauma and/or mental health stuff going.

If you want to distance yourself from her (emotionally if you can’t physically) them that’s down to you. But other people get to make their own choices about that they do and don’t think is acceptable. If they are making allowances based on what they know she’s living with, then that’s their choice.

Although. they are usually the type of person to suddenly become the victim when called out abs oh my God, it’s so boring! Met a fair few like her in my time.

Maybe all the other women are scared of her. If you Stand up to her it might encourage them to do the same

I’d have no patience with her at all.

Vulnerable my arse.

Lol, this sounds like a story my mum would tell me about her gang. In my mum's case they are all in their 60's and 70's and yes, they do make a lot of allowances for each other. Some of them are dreadful moaners, some are bossy - one of her friends is very posh but spent a career in prisons and so uses really shocking language sometimes that upsets the more sheltered ones. But all are committed to the group and the activities and charities they support together. It's a village thing, I think.

I bet no one wants to challenge her because she's a bit of a queen bee and a bully so they don't want to be on the receiving end.

Yep. You are all right. Apart from that I don't buy the 'vulnerable' bit. She really, really, doesn't give a shit. Her DH seems a lovely guy but he has obviously betrayed her and doubtless she was devastated, but oh boy, I bet he's paid for it, and now he seems devoted to her. Or maybe he puts on a very good show. But yes, everyone is scared of her.

You can be vulnerable and not be an arse!

They are 2 separate things.

Call her out for being an arse.

Support her (if you want) when she's vulnerable.

I've met a few people like this in my village - those who are or want to be big fish in a small pond. I would kill her with kindness, but also support those who are in her firing line.

Hahaa I know her kind and yy to pps saying if you distance I’d caa as ll her out she’ll be the biggest ever victim

It's a village.

You're still the newcomer, who they don't disclose much to (they've pribabkymall known about the affair for months)

There's probably loads more back story to come out. So don't dismiss those who say she's vulnerable just because you don't know the reasons why they say that.

People are beginning to talk to you in greater depth, which is encouraging. Your instinct not to gossip is spot on. But don't let that stop you being a good listener when someone decides to to fill you in on the back story.

Just continue to be polite to her, and spend time with other people as far as possible. It'll all blow over in a little while (in village terms, that can mean 'within this generation')

Can you just give her a very wide berth?

I don't think I'd be able to socialise with her without saying something. She sounds like a right old bat!

Don’t buy into or get dragged into a weird dynamic like this.

Are they all middle class? II only ask because I’ve only found this weird dynamic of politely allowing people to be rude to you in my middle class groups. It’s like everyone’s too polite to challenge things and the rude person is usually articulate enough to be rude in a way that isn’t so obviously offensive people need to challenge it.

I think your strategy of asking what her comment meant was good. Id stick with that and challenge her when she’s rude to you. People like this usually know who they can get away with being rude to and who they can’t.

I have an aunt like this. She’s rude to all my others aunts and cousins, save for me and a couple others who tell her where she can shove it.

She sounds vile! I couldn't be bothered to spend time with someone like that, nor anyone that sucked up to her or defended her.

I'd distance myself, big time! From all of them!

It’s a village - difficult to have a local social circle if you fall out with people. You don’t get to choose a circle of friends, you have to socialise with whoever lives there, and (hopefully!) have one or two real friends in amongst a wider circle of people you tolerate.

@ flowersmakeitbetter "Can you just give her a very wide berth?" I've been thinking a lot about this today and I think this is my best approach. She is bored, and playing games, and being competitive, and I don't want to give her headspace. Thank you.

@SophieKaczynsky the rest are OK. Not my politics, etc, but not bad people, and it's fun and calm when she's not there.

Yes, I'm the newcomer, but funnily enough not one of the group of eight grew up here - all are incomers (but before me!).

@Saz12 You're right. I'm going to be more discerning.

@Whatinthelord "Are they all middle class?" This made me laugh! I'm sure they wouldn't go that low . They are (mostly) Tory Brexiteers, (but those discussions have gone strangely quiet lately) (hmm). There is some serious wealth here. One said that her dgch's school feels are £60K per child! I have to stop my mouth dropping open at the conversations about having three gardeners and spending £90 per month on getting the lawn treated, hardship of not being able to get a Waitrose delivery spot (we have Sainsbo's down the road), etc etc. And yet there is a food bank in the town not three miles away.

Today I have come to realise that actually it is Margaret who is the problem. She is a snob. She has just found out that I watch Strictly and didn't hide her scorn, and doubtless she looks down on me because I have an Estuary accent and a scruffy garden. The others like my company. They may be wealthy now, but they are not entirely oblivious to the way that other people live.

Thanks to you all. I'm going to rise above it and distance myself from her.

She has just found out that I watch Strictly and didn't hide her scorn

See, I wouldn’t have been able to stop myself saying “oh just piss off, you rude cow”.

Honestly, I have no time for people who are so bloody rude to me anymore. I spent a lifetime just taking shitty comments, dirty looks etc and keeping quiet. Not anymore, I call it out every single time. It means my in laws no longer speak to me, they were the biggest culprits.

But I do understand that we are all different and that you need to keep it peaceful - I lived in a similar sounding village years ago so I feel your pain.

They probably find hanging out with her less stressful than trying to fill the social role she does, in terms of organising. Every volunteer group I've been in has had one strong, less palatable character, but you can see the value they bring and (in an adult, detached way) you choose to accept the flip side rather than turn every meeting into a fight.

It sounds like most people like the status quo and have enough life experience to know that a little bit of eye rolling while someone bitches about others is better than turning a sleepy village full on Eastenders by escalating it.

You aren't going to change her. You just need to not care what she thinks.

What did you say to her when you overheard her saying someone lived in a horrid little house?

Why do you want to get on with her when you've heard her bitching about you?

God yes to her being bored. My version of this was tolerable while she worked but I parted ways with her about 7 or 8 months after she stopped working. She was bored and used these odd social tests/games/ruses to fill the time.

@BlancheB

What did you say to her when you overheard her saying someone lived in a horrid little house?

Why do you want to get on with her when you've heard her bitching about you?

I didn't say anything because she was walking in front of me and talking to someone else. She went on to say something like "She should sell up and find somewhere nicer."

So it's an opinion. People have them, and shouldn't always express them, but who am I to spell out this out to a 60+ woman who should've learnt that by now? Someone challenged her on Friday and she said "But it's true!" Which it was, but not what you say!

Every other comment I have a problem with has been about me - either said directly to my face, or with me close by and with an expectation that I could hear. Here is a gem that sticks in mind: when we bought the house we lived with the previous owners' ancient brown carpets and brown and orange curtains (70s originals, I'm sure) for ages and I was thrilled when we redecorated with beautiful neutrals. The group met at my house and when I showed them the living room there were lots of "It looks so much bigger" etc. Then Margaret said out loud, "Hmm, they say grey is over, don't they?" There was a silence and everyone was embarrassed, and moved on, but she has the hide of a rhino and would either enjoy the discomfort or (more likely) not notice. What are you supposed to say? Argue? I was speechless at the time, but now can only laugh at her total lack of awareness/tact.

As I say, people make allowances for her. They sort-of like her.

Why do I want to get on with her? When I meet up with this group, Margaret is usually there. So in order to enjoy the company I want to avoid fights!

@Thepennysjustdropped I see what you mean now. Maybe try to find coping strategies for dealing with her? Shrugging it off, focussing more on the ones in the group whose friendship you do value, taking her tactless remarks with a pinch of salt etc.

Yes, indeed. Thanks. I had no idea there were people like this! Takes all sorts. Thank goodness I also have 'proper' friends elsewhere. xx

‘They say that grey is over’ you could say ‘oh maybe it’s generational’ and breeze past