Bitten at school

[spookybitches]

DS started reception this year so I'm still fairly new to what happens in terms of how challenging behaviour is managed at school. I received a call today from the school nurse asking me to come to collect DS as he had been bitten on his back by another child. They wanted me to take him to the doctors to get the wound cleaned, as the bite had broken his skin. I asked how it happened and was told that it was completely unprovoked, DS was sat at a chair and said child wanted to sit in the chair DS was sitting on. When DS said no, that was when he was bitten.

Can I ask any teachers out there what the repercussions would be for this child if he was at your school? And parents, what would you expect to happen? I'm really upset about it as it must've been quite forceful to have broken skin under a polo shirt. Also this is not the first time I've heard about this child's behaviour. DS has mentioned him a few times about how he pushes and kicks people.

I've not heard anything back from the teacher yet as to what their plan of action is, but I would like to understand what to expect and what your opinion would be if you were in my position. Thank you!

[quote spookybitches]@HelpMeWithMyHip I just want them to take it more seriously than they have done with this child's behaviour. Every one of my DS's friends refer to him as the 'naughty boy that hits people' so I'm assuming what they've done, if anything so far, hasn't worked. Maybe a talk from the head of year might make him see things in a more serious manner.
[/quote]
We have a child like this in DS2s year. When they were younger they used to clash a lot (he was actually the child that got a bonk on the head with the dinosaur) I asked the teacher when they were in y1 if they could be kept apart and they have since that point been in separate classes. They're now in y3 and are still in separate classes so a chat with the teacher or head might work.

Thanks everyone for your responses, you're all right, I should focus on safeguarding rather than the other child, which I will be discussing in a meeting with the teacher. I had it in my head that he would need a more serious chat from a head of year which could help him see the seriousness of it, but I know this is for the school to decide based on what they already know.

[quote User5827372728]@HelpMeWithMyHip

We will have to agree to disagree.

I work with secondary kids who are at risk of permanent exclusions and so much of the behaviour stems from seemingly getting away with so much at primary school.

Most 4 year olds know not to bite. My 2 year old does.[/quote]
It's not just me that disagrees.

Children with developmental delays may bite. It is likely that the child has such delays. It is sometimes very difficult to anticipate when it may occur although they will be getting an idea of the possible triggers as they get to know the child. Whilst I can understand you being upset, the comments here about exclusion and threats to withdraw your child are extreme and unhelpful. Chances are that a similar incident could happen in any reception class. I would personally take a more measured approach. Speak to the teacher. Ask what they can do to prevent other incidents. Speak to your child in an age appropriate way about what happened and why said child might have more difficulty in regulating their emotions. It is all very well saying school should have stopped it. In the ideal world of mumsnet, all such children have 1:1 support from a trained adult. In the real world, many such children start reception with no diagnosis and no support plan. Many will have a support plan with no specific 1:1 specified. Schools may have several children with high level needs and one class TA. No it isn't good enough, but it is the reality of what is funded in our schools.

[quote spookybitches]@HelpMeWithMyHip I just want them to take it more seriously than they have done with this child's behaviour. Every one of my DS's friends refer to him as the 'naughty boy that hits people' so I'm assuming what they've done, if anything so far, hasn't worked. Maybe a talk from the head of year might make him see things in a more serious manner.
[/quote]
If he has some diagnosed or undiagnosed send a "talk" won't change the behaviour.

The behaviour is a result of him not managing the school environment for whatever reason.

Your questions needs to be focussed on finding out what steps they will take to prevent your child being bitten again.

My dc bit other children in reception. The school struggled to access help as the local authority don't offer much and there is a 3 year wait for Autism assessments and at least 2 years for CAMHS and children can't get diagnosed until 6 or older sometimes. They were a bit helpless as were we.
We were beside ourselves with worry and guilt. We attended endless parenting classes and read everything we could. We felt ashamed our child bit others. He did other things too.
Meanwhile the whole class of parents were turned against us by one parent on a mission to get revenge or justice and our child was ostracised and us too. At one point we were even called child abusers.
It took another 4 years to get all of the diagnoses and support and our son suffered crushing mental health and school based anxiety. No one supported him or us. Our son didn't get a playdate or party invite for 2 years. And he missed 6 months of school. And covid lockdowns on top of that.
So while I completely understand how upset you are. I expect your child will bounce back and the family of this child have a rocky road ahead. Children generally don't bite unless they are suffering from being overwhelmed and frustrated. Reception and Year 1 are crunch times. Penalising and excluding won't make it different. He or she won't understand why they are doing it so aren't going to learn from punishments. Direct your anger at a system that is letting all of our children down, including yours.
Our son is doing really well now and at aged 10 doesn't bite. Hasn't for many years and is proudly Autistic. I'm pretty sure the child he bit (children, there were several) don't remember it.

@spookybitches

Thanks everyone for your responses, you're all right, I should focus on safeguarding rather than the other child, which I will be discussing in a meeting with the teacher. I had it in my head that he would need a more serious chat from a head of year which could help him see the seriousness of it, but I know this is for the school to decide based on what they already know.

This chat might actually happen. Maybe even more serious consequences. Or possibly less , at least in your eyes. It will all depend on the circumstances, not just the child's but what's going on in the classroom . You won't be told about any of it though.

[quote User5827372728]@HelpMeWithMyHip

We will have to agree to disagree.

I work with secondary kids who are at risk of permanent exclusions and so much of the behaviour stems from seemingly getting away with so much at primary school.

Most 4 year olds know not to bite. My 2 year old does.[/quote]
And how is exclusion going to help them at all?

School need to be working with the child and family without doubt but excluding a 4 year old is highly unlikely to achieve anything other than feeding back into the idea that they are “bad”

@User5827372728 I asked you if you were a teacher or a pupil because I genuinely wasn’t sure by your replies. Now I see you’re a teacher, I’m wondering if you’re in the wrong job!

You want this child keeping at home or excluding. Wow. Did it cross your mind he may have additional needs? Scrap that, I don’t think it even has crossed your mind, which shows just how great you are at your job!

You said and I quote.

‘Most 4 year olds know not to bite. My 2 year old does’

You are just assuming he’s naughty and should know better. When given your profession, it’s you that should know better.

@User5827372728

My son was aged 6 when excluded. He has no idea why and he fell into a pit of despair thinking he was a very bad boy. No one wanted him. It took 2 years for us to build him back. Btw He is Autistic. No one knew that. School said we were to blame. Bad parenting no not Autism. We know plenty of children older who have been dumped out of the system because no one helped them access support when they were 4, 5, 6 ... there is no support.. not even private.
Excluding might keep your child safe but those children that get dumped often don't turn into happy adjusted adults. So think what you wish for.
Also none of us know how our perfect children will turn out. I hope for your sake in the future if one of your children has a problem, perhaps mental health or illness or whatever that the system is there for you..but don't count on it! We are all in this together and need to be compassionate.

Your poor son! I really hope they manage to control this child otherwise he is going to make the children's and teachers life's hell

@winterchills
How do you suggest they 'control' this child I mean perhaps they shouldn't have got rid of the cane (or slipper it was in my day). I mean struggling children definitely learnt from control and turned into well rounded adults without any long term mental health problems.

@Pigeontown thank you for your post. I've been the teacher of biters over the years (specialist school for severe learning difficulties and autism). Sometimes I used to wonder which was worse, having to tell a parent that their child had been bitten, or having to tell a parent that their child had bitten another child.

Without exception the parents of the biter would be devastated, worried about the other child, and mortified. I suppose the helpful thing about it being a specialist school was that the parents of the victim would be much more understanding than the average mainstream parent, as they had empathy for the parent and understanding of issues around special needs.

From the teacher perspective, Jeeeze, it's incredibly hard to stop a biter from biting someone. They can do it in a flash. You can be standing or sitting right next to them and they still manage it.

That said, the other children need protecting as best we can, and there needs to be a strategy in place, even if it can't be guaranteed to always work.

OP, you can absolutely go into school and either talk to a teacher or member of the SMT to all how they are going to deal with this. It is entirely reasonable to do so.

@Pigeontown

Any what do you suggest should happen then? Just accept our kids will get bitten?

[quote User5827372728]@Pigeontown

Any what do you suggest should happen then? Just accept our kids will get bitten?[/quote]
Where has anyone said that?

[quote User5827372728]@Pigeontown

Any what do you suggest should happen then? Just accept our kids will get bitten?[/quote]
Not a single person has said that.

The school need to put in place measures to safeguard all children obviously.

They need to work with the child and his family to get to the root cause of the behaviour and to help him find better strategies to deal with things. If needed they need to look to external agencies for further support.

Excluding a 4 year old is highly unlikely to have any positive impact on them, infact it’s more likely to become vicious circle

[quote User5827372728]@Pigeontown

Any what do you suggest should happen then? Just accept our kids will get bitten?[/quote]
You can't really be a teacher.

@User5827372728

How about ALL parents understanding that in any class of 30 reception children there is at least one child with developmental delays or a poor home life or any number of other things and thinking it's Everyone's problem and not someone else's problem and what can we ALL do to fix it (I've never in 8 years had a single parent without disabled children themselves offer a single word of support or solidarity to the battles we've had to face accessing diagnoses and support...but plenty of judgement. Although now my son is excellent at computing I notice they're a bit more interested!)
Schools and NHS are underfunded and under trained and poorly equipped. That is the problem. We can all vote or get involved in schools or do any number of things.
Parents with 'difficult' children can't do it on their own as there is less of us and our voices don't win elections.

No one expects to have a child with difficulties and guess what. One day that child might be yours. You have no idea. I didn't. I have the 'perfect' older child too.

@User5827372728 I do not believe for one minute you are a teacher after that last comment! No one thinks we should just accept that children should be bitten but people have tried to explain why excluding them is a bad idea. ( and schools can’t just exclude like that anyway ). The child is probably completely overwhelmed, and the school will be looking for triggers etc in order to keep all children safe and support the child.

My child was bitten in the first week, the school were great, they explained what happened and it hasn’t happened again since. If kept happening I would have spoken to them but these are small children, learning how to behave, communicate and navigate a new environment. Some will have the skills to be able to do this quicker than others. Some may be overwhelmed and will need more support. This will not happen by excluding them.

@Clymene I'm doubting the teacher profession

I haven't read all the comments upstream because they were getting a bit shouty for me but we had a similar issue and I invited the boy and his mum to come over after school to play. That way I could assess what was going on myself and chat to the mum about how we could help the kids play better together. This way I could help my son to put suitable boundaries in place and enforce them appropriately whilst helping him understand that we are all different and sometimes you have to do things differently to be able to play with different people. Win win for both kids. They aren't the best of friends now but there haven't been any more incidents and if there were then us mums could help the school and the boys sort it out.

@HelpMeWithMyHip I know what you mean.. but actually despite an excellent school now my ds was prevuously at a school where both Head and SENCO came out with stuff like this. And it was CofE school. It was like a step back into the 1950s.

@Geneticsbunny
I honestly applaud you for being part of the solution. Great idea.

BTW I'm only being 'shouty' because somewhere tonight in the UK is a family crushed that the school told them their child bit another child and they don't know what to do (as well as other issues they're probably having daily). If they come on here and see people saying... that a biting 4 year old child is no good and should be banished for all eternity then it might send them over the edge!

[quote Pigeontown]@HelpMeWithMyHip I know what you mean.. but actually despite an excellent school now my ds was prevuously at a school where both Head and SENCO came out with stuff like this. And it was CofE school. It was like a step back into the 1950s.[/quote]
Ridiculous. So many children are so misunderstood. I was watching that program that was following the millennium kids the other night and there was a man now in his late 20s who had SEN and it was obvious to me watching him at 8 year old in class but he wasn't diagnosed until his late teens. It broke my heart thinking of all those wasted years of help and understanding he could have had but instead he was labelled naughty problem child

@Geneticsbunny

I haven't read all the comments upstream because they were getting a bit shouty for me but we had a similar issue and I invited the boy and his mum to come over after school to play. That way I could assess what was going on myself and chat to the mum about how we could help the kids play better together. This way I could help my son to put suitable boundaries in place and enforce them appropriately whilst helping him understand that we are all different and sometimes you have to do things differently to be able to play with different people. Win win for both kids. They aren't the best of friends now but there haven't been any more incidents and if there were then us mums could help the school and the boys sort it out.

What a lovely approach