So sorry for NHS staff

[6demandingchildren]

Tried calling my GP practice this morning to get a telephone appointment, Mondays is the worst time to call as you can never get through but I was lucky only this time I was met with a different welcome message, it basically said that its not the receptionists fault if their are no available appointments and please do not take your frustrations out on the staff.
Anyway once the receptionist answered (this was around 10am) all the appointments for the day had gone and she asked what was wrong, I have only got pins and needles in my face so nothing major and she advised me to call back tomorrow morning or phone 111.
No wonder these poor people are so stressed out.

[Thirtyrock39]

I think you should have to pay to see a gp- I know that's really controversial but I do think the current system is unfit for purpose and the people need to take preventative measures with their health and well-being. Obvs under 18s and those on benefits would be exempt similar to dental systems.

[ohfourfoxache]

That’s what is coming @Thirtyrock39

[Mummyford]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds

It's not that I disagree with your views (although I do). It's that in my experience you're making comparisons based on a false metric. I'm not saying there aren't sometimes 60-80 hour weeks in those professions (although show me the architect who works an 80 hour week and I'd hire him or her in a second--ours seems to swan off after a 6 hour day), and I'm also not saying that there aren't always people who believe being seen at their desk at midnight will help them advance.

A target of 1950 billable hours in a year, for example, is roughly 40 hrs/week. Now, it's absolutely true that someone looking to rise through the ranks will be logging more that that, it's just not going to be 60-80 hrs a week on a permanent basis. And promotion/partnership (whatever) is frankly going to depend as much on talent and abilityi.e. what you do with your hoursas the number.

I will also say, one of my observations about this world is that people are very inefficient-- a lot of time gets wasted in these environments. In my experience, this is not the case in GP surgeries. From what I've seen they are flat out. And, yes, the fact that an exhausted mistake could kill someone? Yeah, it is a trump card.

[ohfourfoxache]

Just going to leave this here….

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2021/feb/26/nhs-gp-practice-operator-with-500000-patients-passes-into-hands-of-us-health-insurer

[Changednamehere56]

But if there aren't enough GPS, charging people will make no difference?

[ohfourfoxache]

Who says that private companies will guarantee you seeing a GP?

It’ll be farmed out to a pharmacist or a nurse, with a single GP having overview

So an unsafe system which puts profit ahead of patient care

[OttilieStonelady]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds

@ Mummyford aren’t you a delight? No need to be offensive. Clearly you have a different experience but that doesn’t cancel out mine. That’s not how it works.

Hmm. I'd say you are the least delightful on this thread. You just sound daft to be honest and have no real argument other than your opinion. A lot of people staying facts here from lived experience but of course your opinion must be respected purely because it came out of your mouth 🙄

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

@ OttilieStonelady tedious

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

Aren’t there some GP threads if you are looking for a echo chamber?

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

I do not disagree with anyone’s ‘lived experience’ my point is that it is not exceptional.

[ohfourfoxache]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds are you actually reading responses?

There are multiple posters on the same thread saying the same thing

Yes, it is tedious. But only because you appear to be hell bent on ignoring the fact that (very experienced) people are saying that you are wrong

[ohfourfoxache]

And multiple posters are telling you it IS exceptional. Please listen.

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

[quote ohfourfoxache]@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds are you actually reading responses?

There are multiple posters on the same thread saying the same thing

Yes, it is tedious. But only because you appear to be hell bent on ignoring the fact that (very experienced) people are saying that you are wrong[/quote]
Precisely what am I wrong about?

[Sweetnhappy1]

@ohfourfoxache there's no point arguing with someone who thinks the answer to a recruitment crisis is to cut pay. Save your energy.

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

That the NHS is under more pressure that it has been for 70 years? I don’t disagree with that.

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

[quote Sweetnhappy1]@ohfourfoxache there's no point arguing with someone who thinks the answer to a recruitment crisis is to cut pay. Save your energy.[/quote]
Yes - spread the work and the pay out amongst more doctors. That is called public service. Too many vested interests on here - I will leave you to agree with each other.

[ohfourfoxache]

You are saying that being a GP is not exceptional, that many professionals work the same hours

Many of us are saying it IS exceptional and cannot be compared to other professions

You are of course entitled to your opinion. Some people are of the opinion that the Earth is flat and the moon is made out of cream cheese. Naturally they too are entitled to their opinions.

Make of that what you will

[ohfourfoxache]

@Sweetnhappy1 I just don’t understand it tbh. There are 1.1 million of us all saying the same thing, but there are significant numbers of people who seem to be arguing that black is white

I don’t get it. How the hell can people be so blinkered??

[Mummyford]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds

So in your view, are GPs in public service or are they some of the 'serious professionals' you were talking about? Because in my experience, by the time they're established in their careers, those bankers, lawyers, etc. can earn somewhere in the vicinity of 20-30x a GP's salary.

Also, where are the 'more doctors' coming from?

[Kdubs1981]

@user2346421

???
Pins and needles in face doesn't sound great. Definitely call 111.

Important to note that GPs are basically private business funded by the NHS. The GPs decide their own pay, employ their own staff etc.

It isn't fair on the NHS to imply that GPs zero Covid policy and thus behind-doors behaviour is in any way reflective of the NHS proper, which is functioning normally. Especially shit in Emergency Departments of the proper NHS where all the patients who can't see their GPs properly end up going.
So yes, you really SHOULD feel sorry for the NHS, but not highly paid GPs.

As someone who has a clinical role in the NHS - this is nonsense

[Seedlipvshendricks]

The daily mail were out in force today moaning about part time GPs. If you actually read the article the average hours for a GP was 40.
Now that in the ‘normal world’ is full time.

As someone said earlier, you can’t pour from an empty cup and there is a shortage of GPS and those that are working are getting burnt out.

I am not a GP, it’s a thankless job and I am in awe of those who do it. And I work, as many of my family and friends do, in ‘true professional’ jobs, many in London, some earning 6 figures and none of them have worked 60-80 hour weeks for their whole careers. In the first year or so and if a major deadline maybe but not whole career which is what some people expect of doctors.

[Kdubs1981]

@RedFlyingBeeBee

YABU I know you didn't ask. I feel sorry for the patients who don't get the healthcare they need and are entitled to. WTH are GPs doing about it all? Why should we feel sorry for the receptionist? It's the GP practice's responsibility to deliver a service. They are not doing this, hiding behind Covid excuses, it's a disgrace. Of course no-one should be abuse but the GP service is now beyond the pale, I mean what GP service?

Errr... because they should be able to come to work and do their job without being verbally abused?! Like everyone else. Bizarre comment

[Rosemaryandlemon]

I don’t feel sorry for NHS staff per se, because I imagine most public facing public sector workers would tell you they face similar issues. To be honest I think those working in the private sector (retail, hospitality for example) would also say the same.

People are more demanding and entitled these days. I think they are also more aggressive when speaking to others.

People also expect more from services. My parents would never go to the GP, would never take us unless something was falling off (and all our friends were the same). Professionals were treated with reverence.

That is not to say there were not problems. The NHS had huge waiting lists in the 80s and 90s, but people didn’t complain as much:

We all just all want more nowadays and believe we are entitled to it and those in public facing roles get the brunt of it.

[cptartapp]

Hada absolutely it's variable. But your statement made it sound like your experience is the case across the country. Which is very much not so.
By the way, research shows BP is more accurately measured at home. Buy a sphyg, about £20. Great investment for many of our patients and often saves needing an appointment at all. Just ring your results through and we advise. Best for busy working patients.

[ohfourfoxache]

@Seedlipvshendricks just to build on your entirely sensible post - the average of 40 hours a week, does that include official hours only or unpaid overtime?