So sorry for NHS staff

[6demandingchildren]

Tried calling my GP practice this morning to get a telephone appointment, Mondays is the worst time to call as you can never get through but I was lucky only this time I was met with a different welcome message, it basically said that its not the receptionists fault if their are no available appointments and please do not take your frustrations out on the staff.
Anyway once the receptionist answered (this was around 10am) all the appointments for the day had gone and she asked what was wrong, I have only got pins and needles in my face so nothing major and she advised me to call back tomorrow morning or phone 111.
No wonder these poor people are so stressed out.

[Cbtb]

Sorry to imply you were angry - tho I think you should be angry. The receptionist should have advised you to call your midwife - I used to work in the hospital clinic set up for this sort of thing and like many hospital services we made getting in contact with us very difficult - you had to call your midwife first. I’m working In Secondary care at the moment as well but in a different area and the amount of “dumping” we do on GP is ridiculous. For example my trust decided to stop funding many outpatient blood tests and so. Told patients to get them done at the GPs - the GPs refused as a) they weren’t being paid to do them and b)if the GP does the test then medico legally it’s the GPs job to action the results even if the GP is told to do it by a specialist. The patients suffer. The anger seems however to all be directed at the GPs - patients accept us telling them they need x doing at GP but not GP telling them hospital should be doing x instead.

(Actually it’s a slightly longer story as the trust actually outsourced bloods to a private company but they messed up the contract and the company won’t do the work they were planned to do and don’t have the capacity to do the work they are agreeing to do) plan B is always “ask your GP”

[ohfourfoxache]

Christ @Cbtb that’s horrendous

[OttilieStonelady]

@ohfourfoxache

I’ve NEVER met a GP who truly works part time

They catch up on paperwork/referrals/chase up hospitals/test results - or teach - when they aren’t in clinic

A GP and I were emailing each other at 23:30 yesterday (yes, Sunday night) trying to get something sorted out for one of their patients; this isn’t unusual, it happens most weekends (time which I’m certainly not getting paid for either)

I wish people would piss off with this whole “part time GP” thing - it’s insulting to the thousands of clinicians and non clinicians who work tirelessly to try to keep people safe in impossible circumstances

GP I work with 'doesn't work on Tuesdays' aka he uses his unpaid day of to catch up with his paperwork, forms, referrals, requests for information etc. Doesn't move from his desk for 7/8 hours. He cried in to my shoulder just last week because he was so tired by it all. My heart breaks.

[MissyB1]

The whole “part time GPs” thing is a bit like when Jeremy Hunt tried to insist hospital Drs don’t work weekends, it’s basically just not true. Part time Doctors (GP or hospital) still work the equivalent of (or even more) than full time compared to most other jobs.

[ohfourfoxache]

@OttilieStonelady they are one of the biggest professional groups forgotten in the pandemic. Those on the covid wards had the most horrendous time of it, but the huge pressure on GPs went unnoticed by most

But it’s going to be so much easier to sell the NHS off if the public turn against Primary Care due to endless anti GP rhetoric

[MissyB1]

@ohfourfoxache
Running the NHS into the ground and turning the public against it was definitely the plan all along, I think that’s fairly obvious.
Oh and hospital staff aren’t getting it any better, the clapping is long since forgotten - as I predicted. They are getting plenty of abuse, lots of it on mumsnet too.

[OttilieStonelady]

[quote ohfourfoxache]@OttilieStonelady they are one of the biggest professional groups forgotten in the pandemic. Those on the covid wards had the most horrendous time of it, but the huge pressure on GPs went unnoticed by most

But it’s going to be so much easier to sell the NHS off if the public turn against Primary Care due to endless anti GP rhetoric [/quote]
Absolutely. It's awful. People's fallback is 'well they get paid loads'. That's not the issue. Sure GPs have nice houses and cars etc, I think most are very grateful for their pay packet. Doesn't mean their mental health doesn't matter. Doesn't mean it's ok for them to be working 60+ hours to keep their head above water.

[cptartapp]

cbtb yep. Many many appointments used taking bloods from hospital out patients they won't see, dressing podiatry patients feet they won't see, dealing with contraceptive issues sexual health clinics wont see, woundcare for woundcare clinics patients they won't see....
The cop out these past few months seem to be 'we're not currently doing that, see your GP'.
And you wonder why there's over a month wait for me to vaccinate your children or do your smear, or why you can't get through on the phones.

[curiousgeorge21]

I've learnt a lot from this thread and think it would be a good idea for some of this info to be widely available, to help people's understanding.

I also wonder how much time is wasted when patients could speak to the pharmacist instead of the GP for example? I think a lot of it is a lack of awareness

Missed appts should have a penalty fee like
The dentist although I've read previously that this would cost more in admin. There needs to be some accountability for repeat offenders though

[ohfourfoxache]

@MissyB1 tbh I’m not sure it is obvious to Joe Public; the amount of vitriol I’ve heard from people who I would otherwise consider sensible is just appalling. It feels like a massive onslaught from the media and the public are following like lambs

[ohfourfoxache]

@cptartapp amen

[QuattroFormaggi]

Just to add - everything that GP surgeries did during the periods of lockdown and peak-Covid were done under the instructions of NHSEngiand (ie government requirements). They were ORDERED to close doors and not see F2F, along with many other rules. If any were broken, and resulted in a local Covid outbreak, the surgery could be held liable. No one would have risked 1. infecting their patients or 2. Having to close the surgery completely, therefore proving no service at all.

We (primary care hub) were open the whole time, doing hundreds of phone/video consults every day, keeping on top of the huge volumes of paperwork, ensuring 2WW cancer patients were getting to hospital, doing the regular blood tests needed by certain patients, and doing antenatal care, baby imms, etc. Our place employs around 40 GPs, only a handful are partners and all others on salary and most are "part time" - 90% are females, with children, whose partners are either GPs or consultants. They work 10hr days and then do paperwork at home, usually working till 11pm. They are exhausted and demoralised. And our large scale means there's a lot more back-up for them in the office. GPs and staff in small surgeries are on their knees.

The high salaries don't equate to a very high £ per hour when you see just how many hours salaried GPs are working, and remembering just how responsible they are for every single individual decision they make every day. Something missed could kill their patient. We don't allow airline pilots or tube drivers to operate under those conditions so why are GPs expected to?

There's never an excuse for bad manners or shit service from a receptionist but please don't blame the actual GPs for it as their hands are pretty much tied.

[if you want to help, here's a few ideas

• don't send them emails to a no-reply email address
• if you can email them on an authorised address, please include your name, DOB, address, so you can be identified.
• please don't send long handwritten waffly personal letters: they take a while to read/decipher, and to pick out the salient point you are trying to make
• if a receptionist asks you to outline the problem it's not through nosiness - triaging is important to be able to prioritise and direct you to the right care.
• use 111 if you're not sure whether you need a doctor or not
• use your pharmacist, who is qualified to do a lot more than sell aspirin!
• TURN UP FOR YOUR APPOINTMENT!! Or have your phone on you for a phone appointment. ]

[SammyScrounge]

@user2346421

???
Pins and needles in face doesn't sound great. Definitely call 111.

Important to note that GPs are basically private business funded by the NHS. The GPs decide their own pay, employ their own staff etc.

It isn't fair on the NHS to imply that GPs zero Covid policy and thus behind-doors behaviour is in any way reflective of the NHS proper, which is functioning normally. Especially shit in Emergency Departments of the proper NHS where all the patients who can't see their GPs properly end up going.
So yes, you really SHOULD feel sorry for the NHS, but not highly paid GPs.

I feel a lot sorrier for patients.

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

All these stories about how hard GPs are working is no different to other professionals who work even longer hours in high pressure high stakes roles, where the work never ends and the demands never let up. That is the reality of professional life. Why do GPs think they are exempt? Clinics should provide a minimum number of appointments monthly with a fixed maximum percentage of virtual appointments, and answer calls within a fixed period of time, or public funding should be withdrawn.

[ohfourfoxache]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds most “professionals” are not directly responsible for life/death decisions

[ohfourfoxache]

Actually @Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds that’s deeply, deeply offensive. These targets are already in place - the reality is that demand exceeds supply.

[OttilieStonelady]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds

All these stories about how hard GPs are working is no different to other professionals who work even longer hours in high pressure high stakes roles, where the work never ends and the demands never let up. That is the reality of professional life. Why do GPs think they are exempt? Clinics should provide a minimum number of appointments monthly with a fixed maximum percentage of virtual appointments, and answer calls within a fixed period of time, or public funding should be withdrawn.

If only it were that simple eh!

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

Working until 11pm is standard in high demand roles - why do GPs think that they should be working 9-6pm or less than full time and anything more leaves them ‘exhausted’ - I genuinely do not understand given that most of the professional world works on 60-80 hours weeks at a minimum. Hundreds of high stakes decisions every day (the ‘life and death’ argument is not a trump card, much of what GPs do is procedure driven and mechanical)

[OttilieStonelady]

Also, GP at housemate's practice have been threatened with knives, barricaded in the room by a patient, car wing mirrors smashed off, harrassed over the phone when a patient managed to get their personal number, followed home etc etc. The vitriol from the press and dare I say places like Mumsnet doesn't help, at all.

[OttilieStonelady]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds

Working until 11pm is standard in high demand roles - why do GPs think that they should be working 9-6pm or less than full time and anything more leaves them ‘exhausted’ - I genuinely do not understand given that most of the professional world works on 60-80 hours weeks at a minimum. Hundreds of high stakes decisions every day (the ‘life and death’ argument is not a trump card, much of what GPs do is procedure driven and mechanical)

What jobs are you referring to?

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

At a minimum, GPs should be able to work part time only in exceptional circumstances where it is compatible with the demands of their practice. A large part of the problem seems to be that GPs want to work 3 or 4 day weeks (and I know that this still means more than full time, it is exactly the same in other professional fields).

[Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds]

Engineering, science, accounting, banking, law, architecture - you name it.

[OttilieStonelady]

@Dhcfisssifjrsnxfjds

At a minimum, GPs should be able to work part time only in exceptional circumstances where it is compatible with the demands of their practice. A large part of the problem seems to be that GPs want to work 3 or 4 day weeks (and I know that this still means more than full time, it is exactly the same in other professional fields).

You've got to be kidding... So, if two GPs who are a couple should both be forced to work full time, 60+ hours a week (because EVERYONE) else does. Who would look after their kids? You do realise GPs are actual human beings, right?

[cptartapp]

curious a missed appointment fee for everyone? Even two year old George and 82 year old Joan? Or would the same old groups be exempt (as per prescriptions) and just the same poor sods in the middle be the ones be penalised?
Most of my non attenders are pensioners.

[LizziesTwin]

At the moment I can’t book a smear test using the on-line booking service for my GP practice. Instead I had to call the office. I was booked in for only 2 days later, which was brilliant but I was on hold for 55 minutes. So frustrating.