8yo boy really struggling with anxiety and fear of death - how can I help him? (atheist)

[BotBotticelli]

Just this really - my little boy who’s in y4 at school and turning 9 soon, seems to be really struggling with his mental health. It’s been getting slowly worse over the past couple of months and now he seems to be in a really bad way.

He has panic attack type symptoms (hyperventilating, crying, sometimes screaming) whenever there’s any change to arrangements for him being picked up/collected from school or any of his clubs. He says he’s scared we will leave him somewhere. He says he feels like something awful is going to happen all the time. He is horrified by the idea of death and a couple of times a week he will be up late crying in his bed after bedtime about the finality of death.

We don’t know anyone who’s died. This has gone beyond a normal developmental awareness of death and upset about it, I think, I have no idea how to console him because although I was raised catholic I am now an atheist. So all the talk about heaven that got me through my childhood without this awful fear, isn’t really an option to me - although when he’s been very upset I have in desperation reminded him that grandma (my mother who’s still very religious) believes in a lovely place called heaven and although I’m not sure, maybe it is true and wouldn’t that be nice? No idea if this is a damaging or confusing thing tk say when I don’t believe it?? But I am just so desperate to give him comfort.

No idea where the fear of being “left somewhere” has come from - I tell him everyday how loved he is, and how we are his family and would never leave him anywhere.

Can help but feel this another one of Miss Corona’s gifts…during lockdown he had 18 months of his mummy and daddy being at home all the time, with him. Now he’s back at school and we are going back into the office, seeing friends, wanting to go out occasionally again, it seems to have really thrown him.

Any advice on resources/things I can share with him to try and help calm his worries? Any advice on dealing with the death thing? Especially interested to know how other non religious people deal with this. In terms of the general panic, I think he may need some professional help but I have no idea where tk start - I guess CAMHS are completely overwhelmed with awful waiting lists? Does this sort of thing merit their involvement? I have no idea but can’t bear to see him struggling like this 😞

Look into what he's been learning at School and what he's been watching or reading at home.

They start to learn a bit about WW2 and evacuees at that age so it could be that.

I know some local schools here dressed up not so long ago as evacuees for School as did my DC in Primary School.

My DC a few years ago when they were younger

My son is just the same OP

I think partly because he was rarely apart from us during lockdown

He is also very intelligent and sensitive so a natural worrier

I went out for dinner over the weekend and left him with grandparents and he stayed up until I came home because he’s so anxious

Have you tried mediation or headspace with him?

Also we bought a weighted blanket which has really helped him

I don’t have any solutions OP, but I my son is/was very similar - the finality of death was often in his mind to the point we even had a short hand for it in the end. He’d just say ‘I’m thinking about it mummy’ Out of nowhere and I’d know I needed to help him.

I’d just console him when he was over whelmed and try to distract his mind onto other things because in my experience there is nothing you can say to actually make the thought of death any easier; it was really more about getting his mind out of the downward spiral .... We’d talk about happy memories, holidays, things we’d done that weekend and really try to visualise them to redirect his thoughts

We never did figure out what brought it on for my DS but what I do know is that it became a symptom of being overwhelmed and anxious rather than the cause .... if he was struggling with other things then intrusive thoughts of death would come creeping back in

My DS is 11 now and the episodes are much, much fewer.

You have my sympathy OP, it’s incredibly hard to deal with but it will pass

@Shylo I have the same shorthand for my DS2 who is 8 - around a year ago he started bursting into tears just before lights out saying he was afraid of everyone dying. We talked about it so much that we called it his Concerns and eventually he just had to look at me and say "just so you know I still have my Concerns" and I would say "I know, go to sleep now". It has massively reduced over time and with honest but brisk discussion on my end, I didn't let him wallow too much or make too big a deal of it. I think I mainly took the line that death is part of life, is what makes life worth living and makes us value the time we have, no one wants to live forever, and we are all stardust really, now go to sleep!

I think I may even have shown him Gandalf in the Two Towers saying that he didn't fear death and it was just another path and pippin saying "that doesn't sound so bad"!

Absolutely no expert at all but I think what @shylo mentions about flipping it abit and maybe teaching some coping strategies rather than trying to make the concerns go away is really valid.
Be honest, you dont have all the answers but you do know you can help him cope with any of these thoughts and you will always be there. I remeber going through a phase like this when I was young (but older than yours, maybe about 10/11) and I literally couldn't stop thinking about parents and grandparents dying, I once asked my mum if she ever thought about death/dying and she just looked at me and said 'no' - I then thought something was wrong with me which then made me feel worse and like I was wierd etc. I think if she'd just said 'yes I do, everyone does sometimes, none of us have the answers but different people believe different things etc. We all find ways to cope with thoughts that make us feel sad like x y z'. Then I wouldn't have felt odd or different, I would have felt reassured and abit safer.
Sending hugs as this must be heartbreaking xxx

There's a book called "What to do when you worry too much" that steps you through sound basic CBT for anxiety for dc about that age.

My youngest dd has always struggled with anxiety. She also had some sensory issues and I wondered about whether she could have ASD at one point - I guess nothing like that is an issue for your ds?

There's nothing wrong with asking your GP for a CAMHS referral, though their bar for picking up dc is very high and he may not be accepted.

I taught my dc a number of breathing exercises, which helped. We talked a lot about how you are in charge of your own mind and practiced ways to think about other things when she was having "worry thoughts". There's a visualisation exercise called Safe Place that worked really well for her.

Oh, and what I used to say about death was "No one knows what happens when we die, but I'm sure it is nothing to be scared of." And then move on to a different topic.

We had a very similar thing with DS at the same age and took him to do NLP which was useful. We had to pay for it though. Could be worthwhile if you've got the cash?

My three have all gone through a phase of worrying about death. My tactic (also atheist) has always been to say you go back to how you were before you were born... You've already done that and that was ok... It seems to help stop the spiral of death panic...

Some good advice here, I don't have any more to add except to say this was my DS and it came on suddenly at the age of 7 after watching a WW2 documentary about the seige of Malta. Apparently 7/8 is the age when they can understand concepts such as death .

He had this on and off for a few more years mostly in the form of health anxiety. He had CBT and other psychological input from CAMHS at times He is now 17 and it is there in the background but he is able to manage it and is doing well socially and academically. Hopefully your ds will make a quick recovery from this but added my story incase it goes on a bit longer.

Comforting atheist thoughts on death : matter cannot be created or destroyed - everything that dies becomes part of new things in the world. The Lion King gives a nice kid friendly explanation of this. Harry Potter and the prisoner of Azkaban (3rd book) is quite good for the idea that people never really leave us as long as they are remembered, and that we pass a part of ourselves on to our children. But I do agree with pp that you need to work on coping strategies with him. Does he have a plan for what he would do if you did forget to pick him up from school? So has he memorized your phone numbers (+ maybe write them in his homework book?) and does he know who to ask to call you? - school office, his club coach/ leader.

Children this age start to become far more aware of mortality, part sadly of growing up and becoming more aware. Get in touch with class teacher, it could have been triggered by history or science topic or book. There has also been so much in the news about covid - it can be peers talking about how we need to wash hands otherwise we might die etc.

I agree with PP about being matter of fact. Talk about how eventually we die usually when very old as it’s part of life - look at the plant world as comparison. One thing to possibly try is to look at the statistical probability of death compared to other things likely to happen or to deaths in other periods of time - helps give a greater understanding of when people die and can be strangely reassuring.
Talk about how amazing modern medicine is - how we are so lucky about living in this time - science helps prevents or treat so many things that used to kill many more people. This can be very helpful to investigate at this age, lots of good books.
Talk about how we look after our bodies so that we do keep ourselves healthy - food, water, exercise, fresh air, shelter, sleep etc.
Joke about it - say you have no intentions of dying as you still need to….be a naughty grandma, climb a mountain etc.

On an aside
If ever wanting a very good book about the death of someone we love, that does not talk about heaven, I totally recommend this book, always and forever. It’s about how people we love live in our hearts and memories. Suitable for all primary ages.

I always say to mine that’s it’s very hard for them to comprehend as they’re so little, but when people are very old they feel ready to die. Luckily I haven’t yet had to deal with the ‘but what about young people who die?’ question yet!

Thank you all so much - some good ideas for me to follow up here.

My daughter went through this at about this age
I think there was a topic at school about ww2 refugees and then later funerals. Then just after that the tsunami in Japan
I just acknowledged her fears let her talk cuddles etc
It’s likely a phase Not a pleasant one but they do come through it

As for the being left behind thing. I found it helpful to tell them exactly what would happen and when and what time. And make a plan for every eventuality
Eg I will fetch you at x time in x place. If I can’t I’ll send x or x

And a reminder that I never forget to collect her yet

It’s tough. I sympathise

no one wants to live forever

Speak for yourself lol

It would be great to add that he’s so very young so it’s a long, long way off (a sweet little lie) and it’s not good to spend time dwelling on something that can’t be changed.

Basically he needs reassurance that death won’t happen to him and anyway it’s too far off to spend time ruminating about it.

I also tell my athletes just control the controllables, the rest, don't worry about it. It's not your responsibility, it's someone else's, you can't influence it so let someone take on the worry!

It's straightforward but a couple of my particularly anxious girls really connected with this, in fact one said every time she says it to herself she literally feels her body relaxing and it's majorly helped her.

Lots of experience with this here as my DD was 7 when her grandfather died very suddenly and it kicked off a lot of anxieties for her. Not just death, but general fears around getting sick / ill, etc.
One of the things that helped was to make a worry box. Write the worry on one side of the paper and the ‘answer’ on the other. For example, I am worried my mommy is going to die. Answer - she isn’t dead now, she is just downstairs or out at dinner. She is healthy and well. .
example - i am worried to sleep alone in the dark - answer, I will turn on my nightlight and remember, the whole world has to rest.

Example - I am worried when I go to sleep I might die (this was a big one) - answer - dreams are not death, they are amazing wonderful things and sometimes I can fly in my sleep and have superpowers. I can see and talk to my grandfather. Sleeping is when my body and brain get to rest.
Hopefully you see what I mean? She still has the box and I think she still plays the ‘game’ sometimes. It has definitely been added to over the years.
I don’t think death has to be a conversation about religion, By the way. Unless he is asking, is there a god, where do you go after you die? It sounds like he is worried about being left alone.
Oh - to that point - I also left her a list of ‘emergency’ contact numbers of basically everyone close to her in her life.

I haven't RTFT but just wanted to say that he sounds very much like me as a child. I was incredibly anxious and always thought about dying or something terrible happening to my family. I wouldn't let my mum out if my sight because I thought something would happen. It turns out I have OCD, do you think it could be something like that?

You've had brilliant, practical advice on here OP. We use/d a Worry Monster- Monster Teddy with a zippy mouth. You put a worry in before bed and they're all gone by the morning. Works for v young children but DS3 used it right up until recently. He has ASD and physical issues so had plenty worries! We've also always had a dream catcher and spoke about how it catches the bad dreams. He loves that.

The worries about death escalated when my dad passed 18 months ago. Not sure if it's something you want to use but we've always spoken to our 3 DC about how people we love go to the stars and can see us every night. We often wave to the brightest star as that's my mum. My 2 older boys were young when mum passed- 7 and 9- and it really helped since we're not religious. DC1 now 17 has a really healthy interest in philosophy so it doesn't seem to have affected his grip on reality!

Sorry meant to say DC3 is also 9, like your son.

My DD went through a phase like this - it turned out that she had read Charlotte's Web in which the mother spider died and she was suddenly confronted with the possibility that mothers die. She clung to me like a limpet for a while, but eventually calmed down about it.

My OH has recently died and the approach I have taken with the little GC relates to the scientific law of conservation of matter. For the littlest it was saying that we are all made of stardust (atoms) and these never go away, they just re-form into some new part of the universe.... might be part of a tree, or a star, or a rabbit etc. A I told them that all the love he had for them is now a part of them and will never go away, and that they will pass that love on to others and so on ad infinitum.

They do not seem to have been deeply disturbed by it, but do miss him - we chat about him all the time.

I hope your little lad will get through this horrid phase soon - it is very common indeed.

@Mischance

Charlotte’s Web did this to my son too ... even this morning was inconsolable about a dream he had where I popped my clogs

That's beautiful Mischance . I'm so sorry for your loss