Do you feel for evil people?

[Seldon]

I want to start by saying this is a sensitive topic. I also wonder whether I might be wired strangely.

This thread is inspired by recent events in the news but I don’t want to mention names.

Whenever a horrific crime is committed there is a clamour for some awful consequences for the criminal. I logically agree with the punishment but when I think about the life of that evil person, I can’t help but shudder and feel something. Sympathy is not the right word, but it’s not a nice feeling. I am often the same with a film, when the baddy gets some awful comeuppance at the end.

Do others ever feel like this? I am certainly not interested in me being “right” and no doubt a lot of people will say no, they feel nothing. I’m just interested to wonder if this way of thinking is normal.

@Seldon

But don’t have the big girl knickers on to actually provide a little detail to actually make for a debate

No, I explained why I don’t want to make it about person X.

Simply does not make sense though.

Why on earth would anyone, previously unsympathetic to someone “evil” shift to having sympathy on the basis of you, an anonymous mumsnetter?

No I don't.
I feel for their families but not them.
I'm also not a believer in forgiveness.

@Reallyimeanreally2022

Back off with your hectoring the OP.
This is actually a very thought-provoking thread and your aggression to the OP is derailing it.

I immediately thought it would be about Sarah Everard's murderer but whoever it's about it's a valid discussion.

In answer to a pp's question, I think very few total psychopaths have had "normal" upbringings. That's Netflix movie psychopaths. The real ones are more complicated.

It’s not hectoring!

It’s probing fgs

I understand what you mean OP. Life isn't black and white, and like others, I wonder what happened that got them to that stage. I also believe in rehabilitation to a certain extent, but I do struggle with the most horrific crimes and do think some people should never be released.

Many people have traumatic upbringings and many break the cycle. Few become "evil". I don't think the word "evil" is terribly helpful, but there are crimes so cruel or calculated that they do stand out against the general mire of violence in society. I'd say that features of "evil" would include a long term pre-meditation, pleasure from cruelty, collusion or manipulation of others or repitition of their acts.

I taught a murderer. He was a "hard" character, biding his time until he left school. Not the easiest of backgrounds and reading between the lines of what I knew of him, the area and the local news reports he was probably drawn into gang crime and someone else paid with their life. The victim and their loved ones have paid dearly for their life not lived or living with grief, but I can also feel sad for the 15 year old that I remember chatting with, ending up 5 years later squandering his youth and wasting opportunities to end up serving a lengthy prison sentence. To take away someone's life is an act of evil but I don't know enough about his intentions and factors involved such as drugs and gang hierachy to judge whether he was generally "evil" in personality. My memories of him in the classroom were not of an "evil" person, and I hope he can come out of prison with remorse, detached from the circumstances that lead to his crime and able to live a non-violent, worthwhile life. I've taught more malicious, more unpleasant people who have not gone on to commit murder. Hopefully they've matured and grown up to be better people than my memories of them!

I can feel sadness for the whole bloody mess of the situation, and it was the murderer I knew rather than the victim and those caught up in the consequences which is why I have more headspace for him than I would usually have over this kind of case.

I do, OP. It’s not at all a comfortable feeling, but I can empathise with them (and anyone else).
That doesn’t mean I like them or identify with them, and I hate those feelings of empathy.
You’re the only other person I’ve known admit to this.

I am so sorry @ParkheadParadise and I'd have felt exactly the same in your position.

@MatildaIThink

I don't tend to define people as "evil", from Hitler and Stalin, to Couzens or even Boris Johnson, because "evil" is entirely subjective and removes our understanding. For example Couzens might be a despicable human being, but labelling him "evil" does not further our understanding of him, which reduces our ability to stop something similar happening again in the future. His actions did not happen because he is "evil", they are complicated, likely combinations of NPD, sociopathy and a whole range of other interacting factors.

Do I occasionally feel sorry for people who do horrible things, sometimes yes, bust mostly no as they are where they are because they have chosen to act the way they did. I remember years ago watching a documentary about paedophiles in American jails, I hate paedophiles, just as almost everyone does. There was one man who was incredibly remorseful but knew he would reoffend if released, he begged the judge to keep him in jail or have him medically castrated (both within the remit of the judge). The morning before he went to court for the judge to order his release (which was at that point only a formality) he broke a razor blade out of a razor and cut off his penis and testicles himself, he was taken to ER and then to court after. In court the judge asked him why he did it and he explained again that he knew he would reoffend if he still had the sexual drive caused by testosterone and in the pain of the moment decided to make extra sure he could not offend again by removing his own penis as well and that it was his only option as he had asked for help to stop him reoffending but help had been refused. The judge then changed his mind on releasing him and committed him to a mental hospital for an indefinite time, because a potential offender asking for help to stop them reoffending was deemed to require less help than someone who took drastic actions to make sure they never offended again. I remember feeling sorry in that moment for that man, a man who had raped children, because despite of all his failings he was trying and was being refused help.

As others have said people are rarely all good or all bad, but a complicated mixture. The Krays were "nice to their mum", completely ignoring the hundreds of people they had violently attacked and terrorised, or many who they personally beat and tortured, in some cases even raped the victims (male and female). People are complicated, you can feel sorry even for those who do awful things, at the same time you can also feel nothing good towards them.

Let's be honest though Hitler was one hell of an evil SOB. Sometimes you just need to call it as it is.

No, because they had a choice. It’s always easier not to rape or murder etc someone than to do it… you just don’t do it… no matter how messed up their childhood was or whatever, they still had a choice. It’s the same with paedophiles, even if you are sexually attracted to children, you still have a choice whether to act on it or not… so don’t…

I do sometimes wonder how people who have committed a crime and got away with it carry on with life though, do they spend the whole rest of their life waiting for a knock at the door?

There were a couple of boys committed some awful crimes against a pair of younger children, and I remember amongst all the 'PURE EVIL' type news stories, a social worker described them as 'the Baby Ps that survived', to describe how horrific their upbringing was. That has really stayed with me.

I find this post, posted by a man, so close to the Sarah Everand case hearing, incredibly distasteful.

No I feel nothing of the sort and often think they get off VERY lightly.
In fact I see them as pointless, negative beings with no value and would be happy if they brought back hanging for some evil criminals.

*Everard