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Original poster

Do you feel for evil people?

64 replies

Seldon · 07/10/2021 10:20

I want to start by saying this is a sensitive topic. I also wonder whether I might be wired strangely.

This thread is inspired by recent events in the news but I don’t want to mention names.

Whenever a horrific crime is committed there is a clamour for some awful consequences for the criminal. I logically agree with the punishment but when I think about the life of that evil person, I can’t help but shudder and feel something. Sympathy is not the right word, but it’s not a nice feeling. I am often the same with a film, when the baddy gets some awful comeuppance at the end.

Do others ever feel like this? I am certainly not interested in me being “right” and no doubt a lot of people will say no, they feel nothing. I’m just interested to wonder if this way of thinking is normal.

OP posts:
Toodlydoo · 07/10/2021 11:24

The redhanded podcast had an episode where they interviewed the parents of a psychopath (14yr old) really made me think. The episode is from 1st Jan 2020 called “when your child displays psychopathic traits”.

I don’t get commission lol, I really felt for the family.

Toodlydoo · 07/10/2021 11:25

@ParkheadParadise

NO I have no sympathy for Evil Bastards. My dd was Murdered by an evil bastard. If that happened to your child I doubt you would have any sympathy for evil bastards. He walked free from court on a not proven verdict. Months later sitting at traffic lights in my home town he walked across the road with his new girlfriend he went on to kill her dog and leave it on the doorstep. I was ready to put my foot down and kill both of us, I didn't care what happened to me and I wanted him dead. Dd2 was in her car seat in the back of the car that's what stopped me. He died 4 years after from a drug overdose. I was fucking raging that he died from an overdose and no one had Murdered him. I didn't know I was capable of such hatred until I met him.
💐 I’m so sorry I can imagineI would feel the same.
julieca · 07/10/2021 11:34

Yes I know what you mean. One of my relatives murdered two other relatives, one a child. It is complicated.

Reallyimeanreally2022 · 07/10/2021 11:35

Can you give an example of someone you regard as “evil” but also feel sorry for them

thetesdybears · 07/10/2021 11:37

In most cases of murder, rape etc absolutely not! Not every evil bastard had a hard or awful upbringing. I also think lots of people did have terrible childhoods and have still turned out well.

Would be interesting to know what percentage of murderers had a good upbringing. I just think about the 16yr old boy that had a decent home and raped and murdered little 5yr old Alesha MacPhail. Pure evil, I hope people like him have an awful time in jail!

Original poster
Seldon · 07/10/2021 11:38

Can you give an example of someone you regard as “evil” but also feel sorry for them

I don’t want to name any cases deliberately

OP posts:
Reallyimeanreally2022 · 07/10/2021 11:40

Why not? Worried about posters reactions?

Original poster
Seldon · 07/10/2021 11:43

I don’t want to shift the sympathy away from real victims whose names we may know

OP posts:
Reallyimeanreally2022 · 07/10/2021 11:44

@Seldon

I don’t want to shift the sympathy away from real victims whose names we may know
This is totally bizarre.

My sympathy for a victim isn’t going to “shifted” because an anonymous mumsnetter has sympathy for them.

Reallyimeanreally2022 · 07/10/2021 11:45

Has sympathy for the perpetrator

CookPassBabtridge · 07/10/2021 11:47

Yes I do briefly feel empathy for their child self, because to murder or rape or abuse etc takes a fucked up unloved upbringing usually. The psychology of it fascinates me.
But I don't sympathise for too long. My mind stays with the innocent victim and hopes the murderer gets punished.

Original poster
Seldon · 07/10/2021 11:48

I also think it would change the point of the thread. If I say I feel something for perpetrator X, I know the natural response is to say what about victim Y.

OP posts:
HeartsAndClubs · 07/10/2021 11:48

I think it’s possible to separate the two.

I feel absolutely no sympathy for the evil do’er, but stepping away from the evil they are and have become, I think that we all should think about how someone reaches that level of depravity. Because by making statements such as “some people are just born evil” means that it could happen to any one of us, any of our children, any of our relatives, and deep down nobody believes that their own child might turn out to be a mass murderer or a rapist or .

So we need to have some understanding of how evil becomes evil.

One crime I can think of is the James bulger murders. Regardless of people’s feelings towards the crime, both boys were just 10 years old. There are plenty of children that age here on mn. Y5, children who are just starting to think of going on their y6 residential for the 1st time, thinking about which secondary school they will go to, and we confidently assert that those children surely wouldn’t commit such acts because they are innocent children. And yet we judge other ten year olds based on the crime they committed.Even though in the eyes of many those ten year olds were not yet old enough to walk home from school, wouldn’t be entrusted to babysit a younger sibling, wasn’t old enough to marry, to vote, to drive and to drink. And yet we judged them as adults based on their crime. How is it that we as a society should be able to pick and choose what makes someone an adult and what doesn’t? If a 14 year old falls pregnant we sympathise with the fact she is a child having a child. But a 10 year old commits a murder and we immediately class him as an adult in order to justify our thinking. And yet he is no less a child.

MatildaIThink · 07/10/2021 11:50

I don't tend to define people as "evil", from Hitler and Stalin, to Couzens or even Boris Johnson, because "evil" is entirely subjective and removes our understanding. For example Couzens might be a despicable human being, but labelling him "evil" does not further our understanding of him, which reduces our ability to stop something similar happening again in the future. His actions did not happen because he is "evil", they are complicated, likely combinations of NPD, sociopathy and a whole range of other interacting factors.

Do I occasionally feel sorry for people who do horrible things, sometimes yes, bust mostly no as they are where they are because they have chosen to act the way they did. I remember years ago watching a documentary about paedophiles in American jails, I hate paedophiles, just as almost everyone does. There was one man who was incredibly remorseful but knew he would reoffend if released, he begged the judge to keep him in jail or have him medically castrated (both within the remit of the judge). The morning before he went to court for the judge to order his release (which was at that point only a formality) he broke a razor blade out of a razor and cut off his penis and testicles himself, he was taken to ER and then to court after. In court the judge asked him why he did it and he explained again that he knew he would reoffend if he still had the sexual drive caused by testosterone and in the pain of the moment decided to make extra sure he could not offend again by removing his own penis as well and that it was his only option as he had asked for help to stop him reoffending but help had been refused. The judge then changed his mind on releasing him and committed him to a mental hospital for an indefinite time, because a potential offender asking for help to stop them reoffending was deemed to require less help than someone who took drastic actions to make sure they never offended again. I remember feeling sorry in that moment for that man, a man who had raped children, because despite of all his failings he was trying and was being refused help.

As others have said people are rarely all good or all bad, but a complicated mixture. The Krays were "nice to their mum", completely ignoring the hundreds of people they had violently attacked and terrorised, or many who they personally beat and tortured, in some cases even raped the victims (male and female). People are complicated, you can feel sorry even for those who do awful things, at the same time you can also feel nothing good towards them.

HeartsAndClubs · 07/10/2021 11:51

My sympathy for a victim isn’t going to “shifted” because an anonymous mumsnetter has sympathy for them. tbh, I imagine that if the OP posted that she feels some sympathy for Wayne Couzens she would be lynched, although it seems pretty evident this is what this thread is about.

helpfulperson · 07/10/2021 11:53

I often think when I hear about 'evil peoples backgrounds that I can't be sure I'd be any different if that's what I knew of life.

Anotherlovelybitofsquirrel · 07/10/2021 11:54

No sympathy other than for the victims.

@ParkheadParadise

@MangoSeason

I'm so so sorry 😞

Innovationstandard · 07/10/2021 11:57

HeartsAndClubs

I didn't read it as being about him particularly

RobotandPenguin · 07/10/2021 11:59

There was a very high profile criminal case in my neighbourhood around a decade ago. I didn't know the individuals directly involved but was nearby on the day the specific incident took place and witnessed much of the events and direct aftermath.

There is no doubt in my mind that individual who committed the crime needed to feel the full weight of justice. I do think about them a lot though - the circumstances which drove them to commit the act and, as others have said, I think about them as a baby and a child - the amount of possibility which once lay before them and how badly things must have gone (I'm not diminishing personal responsibility but system failing do also play a part here) for this person's life to have take the path it did. I do, of course, feel tremendously sorry for this person's victims but it's not a black/white, either/or situation. There is space to feel some sympathy for the perpetrator too, and abhorrence at the crime - emotions are complex and can conflict.

Reallyimeanreally2022 · 07/10/2021 12:03

@HeartsAndClubs

My sympathy for a victim isn’t going to “shifted” because an anonymous mumsnetter has sympathy for them. tbh, I imagine that if the OP posted that she feels some sympathy for Wayne Couzens she would be lynched, although it seems pretty evident this is what this thread is about.
Agreed You start a thread But don’t have the big girl knickers on to actually provide a little detail to actually make for a debate

Just a general vague nonsense question

Original poster
Seldon · 07/10/2021 12:08

But don’t have the big girl knickers on to actually provide a little detail to actually make for a debate

No, I explained why I don’t want to make it about person X.

OP posts:
remodelideas · 07/10/2021 12:13

I think in the JB case, the murder was so horrific that it absolutely warranted an adult sentence. If little kids were killing little kids because "they're kids they don't know better" then we would have had many, many more cases like JB.

And discussing individuals doesn't help and wasn't the OP's intent, in my mind. It's more about whether we are able to feel sadness and anger for the victim and compassion for the perpetrator. I think that it's subjective to the crime itself; a gang on gang related crime, with a perpetrator coming from a broken home with very few life options to me could potentially garner pity. Someone who hurts an innocent child, or takes and destroys life for "fun" - no. No pity. I do feel pity for the little child they once were, though, and can only wonder how and why they ended up doing such heinous things.

Hogwash · 07/10/2021 12:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MintJulia · 07/10/2021 12:20

No.

Evil people know exactly what they are doing. It's not because they had a traumatic childhood etc. They do what they do because they enjoy it. They know it's wrong but they still put themselves first and don't give a toot about anyone else.

No excuses.

Justilou1 · 07/10/2021 12:22

No. They may be the result of their upbringing and experiences, but that could make them empathetic. They made choices.