Social care

[Pixxie7]

So Sajid Javid now thinks that as well as working longer we should also be looking after our elderly relatives rather than relying on the state. I despair, I guess we can actually relax at the age of 80 plus.

But why should we rely on the state? I have no crystal ball, but given the way things are going, I suspect we are going to have an utterly overwhelmed, crippled and unsustainably expensive social care crisis over the next decade or so - and the situation is pretty dire as it stands right now. People cannot keep pushing issues onto the state to deal with if they can in anyway be dealt with in other ways.

@Youcancallmeval

But why should we rely on the state? I have no crystal ball, but given the way things are going, I suspect we are going to have an utterly overwhelmed, crippled and unsustainably expensive social care crisis over the next decade or so - and the situation is pretty dire as it stands right now. People cannot keep pushing issues onto the state to deal with if they can in anyway be dealt with in other ways.

It's not fair that people paying for elderly social care now won't have anyone to pay for theirs.

It's not supposed to work like that. The idea behind taxation is that you're funding your own care.

There isn't a pot with "Shelddd's Nan" written on it, where your family money is saved for her rainy day. The premise may be that taxation means you get yours when the time comes, but the vast numbers of people requiring support from social care is bigger than the amount of resources available.

Exactly they really haven’t got a handle on this at all, I don’t think the Tories have any intention of the rise going into social care but a smoke screen to get more money into the nhs. A couple of times one of the Tories has said the when questioned about the rise being for the nhs closely followed by social care.

It’s not a matter of pushing it onto the state most people do what they can but we already pay into council tax now a rise in NI. Most won’t retire until late 60s so won’t necessarily be in the best health to take on the care of elderly relatives no easy task.

Good luck with that!
Give up your job even if you earn much more than your husband (caring will overwhelmingly fall to the women’s lot)
Get used to living on just the state pension when you retire (No private pension for Carers)
Get used to the pittance of surviving on Carers Allowance (Family Carers save the NHS millions of pounds but are ‘paid’ pennies per hour for what is very often a 24/7 job )
It’s not just the elderly who need social care. A difficult birth, a road accident , a chronic illness or serving your country can result in your family needing social care input.

That’s why people need to stop believing g the overpopulation myth. We need more children in the UK not less, there should be incentives to have more children.

This must be the first generation where people don't feel they should care for elderly relatives.

Why don't people want to support the people who cared for them?

I'm not talking about people needing intensive health care just those who need support in their later years.

Why wouldn't you?

AnkleDeep you are incredibly naive. Have you ever cared for someone with dementia?

I used to work in a dementia care home. A common reason for admission was that the daughter (almost universally) who had cared for the dementia sufferer up until that point had died or was dying. Its a psychologically and physically brutal job to do 24/7.

Just needing a bit of shopping doing isn't social care - its dealing with an adult who's needs are 24/7/364, making it impossible for the carer to hold down a job or get a full night's sleep even if they're not incontinent and don't need lifting.

In "the good old days" and many countries where there is no social care, elderly and profoundly physically disabled people and those with severe chronic illness were often kept in bed all day every day until they died, brought and fed meals and cleaned up once per day. When one woman had a very elderly or ill or profoundly physically disabled dependent, a clutch of small children and a household to run this was usually the most she could manage and considered normal. We now understand that this is inhumane, and completely unacceptable - but most families cannot earn two incomes and look after their very elderly relatives once they get to the stage of needing social care.

What's changed is that the care provided to generations who died fifty years ago would be regarded as elderly abuse now, and that due to better care and better medical management of geriatric chronic illness people are surviving in extremely poor health for years and years longer than fifty years ago.

@AnkleDeep

This must be the first generation where people don't feel they should care for elderly relatives.

Why don't people want to support the people who cared for them?

I'm not talking about people needing intensive health care just those who need support in their later years.

Why wouldn't you?

Bit if a different time now though isn't it? Firstly, due to the cost of living most households cannot function on one income, therefore both adults work (and usually full time). When I was young, grandmas usually stayed at home and helped look after older relatives and grandkids which reduced the cost of living for the parents. Secondly, people settle down later now and have kids later so have childcare responsibilities later. People take on mortgages later, so have to continue working to pay this (or even worse, stuck in rented accommodation for life with ridiculously high rent rates). I would love to care for my parents (my mum is actually pretty poorly at the moment), but between having to work full time, having 2 small children I'm not sure exactly how I could find the time?

How are most families meant to do this? More and more people are single in middle age. They need to work. They need to pay their bills, rent or mortgage. They need to try to save into a pension or they are deemed irresponsible. They need to save for their own social care. Many may live hundreds of miles from their parents. Are they expecting single people to give up their jobs, lose their homes and possibly never be able to work again themselves?

@AnkleDeep

This must be the first generation where people don't feel they should care for elderly relatives.

Why don't people want to support the people who cared for them?

I'm not talking about people needing intensive health care just those who need support in their later years.

Why wouldn't you?

Because they were abused by their parents ?

It is not possible to work full time with 2 young children to provide the care needed by an elderly relative. We will end up with a major mental health crises on our hands.

My DH had his MH issues caused by a demanding parent who had physically/emotionally abused him as a child. He was trying to do a demanding job and dance to this parent’s tune on his days off.
When my DH retired due to MH issues SS ramped up their demands that he do more.
Not everyone can or wants to do it,

The majority of people I know have to function on one income already. It’s already difficult for them. I am ill in my early 50s and will die before my parents and can’t care for them.

@AnkleDeep

This must be the first generation where people don't feel they should care for elderly relatives.

Why don't people want to support the people who cared for them?

I'm not talking about people needing intensive health care just those who need support in their later years.

Why wouldn't you?

Totally agree. We have this at the moment with DH's mum. We will do most of it with a bit of extra support to ensure she can stay in her own home. When that becomes difficult she will move into our dining room.

We will do it for as long as possible. We have young children and I work away a lot. But she doesn't want to go into a home and we don't want her to either. Families should do all they can if they can, rather than rely solely on the tax payer.

The reason our careers aren’t appreciated is because everyone thinks it’s easy. It’s not apart from the basic care, they need constant stimulation. It’s very hard work.

It's so hard. I lost both my parents to illness. They were in their 50s and it was an awful awful time. I remember the social worker asking me in my early 30s if I was going to have any more children! I only had my ds then but went on to have my dd because I wanted to have a family of my own and to live my own life which is what my parents would have wanted. I did everything I could for them both and if anything I wish I could have done more and might have been able to have done more for them had it not been for them both being so ill at the same time. We just don't know what is round the corner for any of us and there are no guarantees we will even live into old age. Luckily, in the end the state paid for my parents care.

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

AnkleDeep you are incredibly naive. Have you ever cared for someone with dementia?

I used to work in a dementia care home. A common reason for admission was that the daughter (almost universally) who had cared for the dementia sufferer up until that point had died or was dying. Its a psychologically and physically brutal job to do 24/7.

Just needing a bit of shopping doing isn't social care - its dealing with an adult who's needs are 24/7/364, making it impossible for the carer to hold down a job or get a full night's sleep even if they're not incontinent and don't need lifting.

I suggest you read what I said again. You obviously didn't read it the first time. Hence your foolish response. I said not those requiring intensive health care. Which dementia does.

I cared for both of my parents, my mother through cancer and my father until he decided he needed residential care. I did a lot more than "doing a bit of shopping".

Dh was responsible for his mother for around ten years and the mental strain was incredible. She eventually went into a home following a fall. We just couldn't cope anymore and had two children with SN at home, plus work to go to.

They need to look at assisted dying. I don't want to be looked after by anybody once I can't manage anymore by myself. My dcs couldn't do it anyway.

I was responsible for the care of an elderly relative. It meant that my life was organised around his 24 hour a day needs. I had a health issue myself which l ignored as hospital appointments for me were random and did not fit in with caring.
. Fortunately, because of lockdown l didn't go for an eye test, and relative died. After recently having the eye test l have been referred to hospitals and have had lots of appointments at all sorts of times throughout days. I do wonder how on earth l could have got cover for these varying times if relative had still been alive.
It is easy to say that families should look after elderly relatives but if you do you are completely on your own, your needs are forgotten and you are just left to get on with it however you can.

It will be a cold day in hell before I care for my mother in her old age. She's an interesting woman, we get on well enough, but I'll be providing her with the amount of care she provided me with as a child - bugger all. I'm not cruel though, I'd ensure she always had food; better than she ever did.

Javid is in a dream world. One where there's someone just waiting to care, with nothing to do and good family relationships. That is not the current world. Care is a full time job - government ideology has ensured that everyone already needs a full time job to survive, it's a rare person who has the physical time to do this without burdening the government in a different financial manner. Cheaper to provide carers allowance than carers though, I guess...

even the government don't seem to get that all people that live in care homes are not elderly.

AnkleDeep care homes are social care. Where do you draw your imaginary line between intensive health care and some support? You say that by some support you don't mean helping with shopping, but that dementia (which one in 6 people over 80 have) is intensive care which you are graciously exempting family from...

What exactly is it you think people are obligated to do - what's too much? No caring for anyone with dementia, no toileting? Or should that be the daughter's job? Night time toileting? Incontinence care? Showering and dressing and undressing? Help changing position through the night?

If all those things come under intensive health care and things like helping with shopping isn't what you mean, what exactly do you mean by "a bit of support"? Driving to appointments? Social care rarely covers that anyway.