what's the obsession with "getting back to the office!

[Bells3032]

I get some people want to return to the office and i think they should have a right to. but i don't get the obsession that we "MUST" return to the office. Honestly, my DH and I have both been working from home. I am a public sector, he's private. his office have just started return but don't seem to be enforcing it much and they've also announced their best two years of profit ever.

I get some people e.g. those doing passports or probate etc would be much easier in the office as access to paperwork but my job is 100% computer based and I am far more productive at home.

1. no long commute so less tired plus less likelihood of being late.
2. no "nattering" in the office
3. no time wondering round looking for a desk in the morning and ending up with an inappropriate desk space because we are short. I have a proper desk and chair at home so less back pain
4. no trying to find meeting rooms - just hop on zoom and there everyone is
5. no spending time queuing for the toilet etc
6. less sickness as people not picking up bugs on the trains etc
7. they can sell some real estate or not pay as much rent

What actually would be the benefit to me or my employers to me returning to office? What is with the obsession? Could someone explain to me WHY I should return to the office?

@Upsielazy

It's pretty sad how insular society is becoming. Won't be long until everyone just lives in little individual pods and interacts via the Internet.

Beats being ill all winter, coughing and spluttering all over an open plan office.

@Smashingspinster

I think that a lot of bosses dont trust their staff to be working if they dont have eyes on them at all times. To be honest, I think people are more productive at home often.

If someone needs to be in the office to be productive then make them go to the office, as it's a disciplinary issue if they aren't hitting targets.

If they are hitting targets, then who gives a fuck if they're working in some stuffy office, or sat at home in their pyjamas?

The staff shouldn't be punished because managers can't manage staff.

The reason my dp brought everyone back months ago is that some employees were not working during working hours and others were simply inefficient at home.

Why didn’t he go down a disciplinary route?

@Upsielazy yea. It’s really sad :(
The more I stay at home the lazier I get to go out.

DP and I met at work… probably the last at our workplace now :(

It's surprising how people who like working from home think that working from home is the most efficient way. And that people who don't like working from home think that working from the office is the most efficient way. I don't believe that the majority of either of these two groups are thinking what's best for their employers or the customers.

@ComtesseDeSpair

Sure. But the problem doesn’t go away simply because you think it should or because you think managers need to get better at working out who’s working more efficiently at home and who’s just doing the bare minimum around school hours. Managers are people, and unless there’s an enormous impetus to change workplace culture and deeply held views - which there simply isn’t in many workplaces - managers will simply keep on doing what they’ve always done and giving the opportunities to Rob who they know has been “making the effort” to come in and “be present” rather than Jane who’s been doing, “well, what has Jane been doing, I haven’t seen her do anything recently.”

You’re right, but what this will do is create an even greater competitive advantage for the organisation who have invested in good management and systems - not just in terms of productivity but in the competition for staff and talent in a very constrained market.

Over time, many of the best people will go where the working conditions better suit them and afford them greater flexibility. So the companies who have poorer management and need people in the office will have a smaller candidate pool of lower quality.

The better-managed company will already have a competitive advantage, which will widen because it is able to fish for talent in a much wider pool, and offer conditions at least some of those people will find attractive. And so the competitive gap widens. Over time, if talent and staff constraints remain, at least some of the companies that aren’t prepared to invest in management to a point where effective hybrid is possible will go to the wall.

@JassyRadlett

The reason my dp brought everyone back months ago is that some employees were not working during working hours and others were simply inefficient at home.

Why didn’t he go down a disciplinary route?

If anyone is insufficient it's the manager who can't manage his/her staff.

*inefficient

I mean insufficient also works tbh.

I mean insufficient also works tbh.

True. It's annoying though. It's the job of a line manager to manage their staff properly. If they haven't then they're the ones who've failed. Some staff can be trusted to just get on with things, others need to be more micro managed and encouraged etc. That's the manager's job.

I get sending the people back in who aren't performing and have been spoken to etc and properly managed, and will just work better in an office, as wfh won't be for everyone. Others will be more productive from home and others will be about the same. Simply sending back in everyone because the team have been poorly managed reflects even worse on the management than the staff.

@User135644. I don't understand why having everyone in the office come back to work is a problem. If the manager assesses that taken as a whole, productivity is higher when staff are working from the office, how has the manager mismanaged the staff?

Don't get me wrong I love working from home but there are issues such as;

• inducting new staff
• training
• graduate intakes who have never been in an office and don't know what to do
• performance managing (believe me it is hard virtually)
• over hearing info / gossip that can actually help your role
• never being able to switch "off"
• the expectation to always be available because people know where you are (in my organisation we are all multi site so normally people don't know where you are!)

[quote madisonbridges]@User135644. I don't understand why having everyone in the office come back to work is a problem. If the manager assesses that taken as a whole, productivity is higher when staff are working from the office, how has the manager mismanaged the staff?[/quote]
The reason my dp brought everyone back months ago is that some employees were not working during working hours and others were simply inefficient at home

So because 'some' people weren't working properly, 'everyone' gets punished. Managers should manage their staff better than that.

If they want everyone back in the office it's their prerogative but deal with those not working effectively and actually manage them properly.

I don't understand why having everyone in the office come back to work is a problem. If the manager assesses that taken as a whole, productivity is higher when staff are working from the office, how has the manager mismanaged the staff?

It depends on the reasons for the productivity gap, though.

If it’s because the work genuinely benefits from in-person interactions or single-site systems, then fine. For my own team, hybrid will probably be the best outcome though it’s not without its challenges and will need really active management to make sure the benefits are realised. But I am able to quantify our work outputs in productivity measures my organisation has chosen to value, so we are less likely to get caught up in individuals’ unevidenced narratives of ‘what’s best’.

If it’s because several staff were skiving (or perceived to be skiving) and the only thing managers can do to mitigate it is ‘have everyone where I can see them so no one can take the piss’ then you’ve got a management problem.

You can either upskill your way out of it, or accept that over time your talent pool will likely be smaller than companies with better management and therefore more flexible work conditions.

@User135644. So you're not cross with the workers not pulling their weight; you're cross with the manager who said enough's enough. Maybe it's too time-consuming to have to keep managing them and means they can't get on with their own work.

I don't know why its a punishment to work in the office if that's what was happening before. It's just a resumption of normal service. I believe it'll happen more often than people think.

@JassyRadlett
"If it’s because several staff were skiving (or perceived to be skiving) and the only thing managers can do to mitigate it is ‘have everyone where I can see them so no one can take the piss’ then you’ve got a management problem."

Why?

So you're not cross with the workers not pulling their weight; you're cross with the manager who said enough's enough. Maybe it's too time-consuming to have to keep managing them and means they can't get on with their own work.

If they can’t manage their team’s performance on such basic measures as ‘are you doing the work you’re supposed to do when you’re contracted to do it’ without having them within eyeshot, then they are a poor manager. If ‘keeping managing them’ is taking up a disproportionate amount of management time, you go down a disciplinary route.

It’s not a question of being ‘cross’ with anyone. Just noting that if poor conduct and performance is not managed appropriately, regardless of location, then that is not good management.

If any of my people managers tried to pull that sort of bullshit with me - ie ‘I need them all back in full time because I can’t get them to do their hours remotely/hybrid’ then they would find themselves on performance measures of their own before long.

@JassyRadlett. Presumably they were all working well before covid so why would I want to discipline them, and all the aggravation that causes me, when I can just get them to come back to the office and everyone works well again?

[quote madisonbridges]@JassyRadlett
"If it’s because several staff were skiving (or perceived to be skiving) and the only thing managers can do to mitigate it is ‘have everyone where I can see them so no one can take the piss’ then you’ve got a management problem."

Why?[/quote]
Because if work is capable of being done remotely (and some in the team are doing it successfully) but the only tool a manager has in their toolbox is ‘have everyone in so I can deal with poor conduct in person’ then that manager has an extremely limited set of tools. Either an issue with their own capability or the management systems supporting them.

There are lots of ways you can manage poor performance and conduct remotely that don’t require bringing everyone under your eye and consequently narrowing the talent pool. But you need good systems and the ability and willingness to use them.

A member of staff who can’t or won’t work properly unless they are being watched constantly isn’t someone I’d want on my team regardless. So I’d invest the time upfront in managing them to either improve or leave.

And I certainly wouldn’t develop team policies based on needs of the team member with the poorest behaviours. That’s a recipe for a massively demotivated workforce, good people leaving and lower productivity. (There we’re points earlier in my career when I would have and did do that, it’s awfully tempting. But it’s shit and I’ve learned from my mistakes.)

[quote madisonbridges]@JassyRadlett. Presumably they were all working well before covid so why would I want to discipline them, and all the aggravation that causes me, when I can just get them to come back to the office and everyone works well again?[/quote]
‘Presumably’ is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

And because we’re not currently in the same situation as before Covid and before Brexit. The workforce has shrunk and talented workers - even just workers - are in high demand across sectors. And many many workplaces have changed - giving a competitive advantage to those who are able to match the working aspirations of candidates. Right now, it’s a candidate’s market in everything from hospitality to tech.

‘Avoiding aggravation’ is a pisspoor excuse to risk putting your organisation at a competitive disadvantage, risk your more talented employees leaving (because they’re the ones who’ll find it easiest to get jobs that match the way they want to work), and retain an employee who has already shown a lack of commitment to their work. And frankly belies a poor approach to management overall if the goal is to run a productive, high performing team.

[quote madisonbridges]@User135644. So you're not cross with the workers not pulling their weight; you're cross with the manager who said enough's enough. Maybe it's too time-consuming to have to keep managing them and means they can't get on with their own work.

I don't know why its a punishment to work in the office if that's what was happening before. It's just a resumption of normal service. I believe it'll happen more often than people think.[/quote]
For starters, punish the staff who weren't working their core hours. That's a disciplinary issue, regardless of home or office working.

Ultimately it depends on the job and the type of work you're doing. If you've got targets to hit and you're not hitting them, then it's up to the line manager/supervisor to find out why that staff member is struggling. Is it a personal issue? Is it a support issue? Do they just work better in the office?

Staff who aren't pulling their weight should be dealt with. I just get fed up with the the office culture (whether in the office or at home btw) of punishing everyone because some staff members are lazy or take the piss, when the managers should be dealing with these people individually.

Maybe it's too time-consuming to have to keep managing them and means they can't get on with their own work.

And it's the job of a line manager/supervisor to manage their staff. It's what they're paid a higher wage to do.

@JassyRadlett

So you're not cross with the workers not pulling their weight; you're cross with the manager who said enough's enough. Maybe it's too time-consuming to have to keep managing them and means they can't get on with their own work.

If they can’t manage their team’s performance on such basic measures as ‘are you doing the work you’re supposed to do when you’re contracted to do it’ without having them within eyeshot, then they are a poor manager. If ‘keeping managing them’ is taking up a disproportionate amount of management time, you go down a disciplinary route.

It’s not a question of being ‘cross’ with anyone. Just noting that if poor conduct and performance is not managed appropriately, regardless of location, then that is not good management.

If any of my people managers tried to pull that sort of bullshit with me - ie ‘I need them all back in full time because I can’t get them to do their hours remotely/hybrid’ then they would find themselves on performance measures of their own before long.

Exactly. A manager's job is to MANAGE. Why so many of them find this unduly hard I don't know. The number of bosses I've had who were a line manager in name only. It's the old adage of people being promoted as high as their incompetence

@JassyRadlett
@User135644
But aren't you both just annoyed because you want to work from home and the idea of staff being recalled because of poor performance levels stops you from doing that? It's not punishing staff to get everyone back into the office to work as it was pre covid. There are many reasons why this can be beneficial to a company. In fact, during lockdown 1, lots of staff were told that WFH was going to be the norm. Now they are being told, hybrid will be the norm. Actually I think working from the office will become the norm again in the not too distant future.