what's the obsession with "getting back to the office!

[Bells3032]

I get some people want to return to the office and i think they should have a right to. but i don't get the obsession that we "MUST" return to the office. Honestly, my DH and I have both been working from home. I am a public sector, he's private. his office have just started return but don't seem to be enforcing it much and they've also announced their best two years of profit ever.

I get some people e.g. those doing passports or probate etc would be much easier in the office as access to paperwork but my job is 100% computer based and I am far more productive at home.

1. no long commute so less tired plus less likelihood of being late.
2. no "nattering" in the office
3. no time wondering round looking for a desk in the morning and ending up with an inappropriate desk space because we are short. I have a proper desk and chair at home so less back pain
4. no trying to find meeting rooms - just hop on zoom and there everyone is
5. no spending time queuing for the toilet etc
6. less sickness as people not picking up bugs on the trains etc
7. they can sell some real estate or not pay as much rent

What actually would be the benefit to me or my employers to me returning to office? What is with the obsession? Could someone explain to me WHY I should return to the office?

What is particulaly pertinent is the effect it is having on many womens' work-life balance.

It won’t be so good for women when the people who are choosing to go back to the office are mostly men (often to get away from childcare responsibilities and as an excuse to go for after work drinks etc, and because women are more likely to be the ones choosing to WFH so as to work around school pick ups.) There’s an awful lot of research out there which concludes that when you aren’t seen in the workplace you’re perceived as less hardworking or committed by your colleagues, or simply forgotten about altogether, which is bad news for women when it comes to promotions and opportunities for getting onto high profile projects.

Women in many professions spent decades pushing back at male-dominated workplace cultures of long hours and valuable networking taking place outside of office hours, which they often couldn’t participate in due to childcare responsibilities, because they knew that not being seen and visible was resulting in them not getting the best opportunities / being passed over. We really don’t want to go backwards.

What needs to change is management

If you can't tell if people are effective unless you see them at a desk, if you have trouble remembering the existence of these people, you have the problem not them

Been interesting at our place , it only Willy waving managers who are currently regularly in the office ( tech area , female and manager doesn't go together even without wfh )

Yeah, at its base is that Tories and their mates have lots invested in commercial property (but don't forget your pension fund probably does as well!) and so they don't want businesses giving up those leases that form huge part of the 'asset' value.

Also because millionnaire MPs don't understand ordinary people's working lives and how everything is digital so you don't need a 'boss' hanging over making sure you're earning your keep.

Sure. But the problem doesn’t go away simply because you think it should or because you think managers need to get better at working out who’s working more efficiently at home and who’s just doing the bare minimum around school hours. Managers are people, and unless there’s an enormous impetus to change workplace culture and deeply held views - which there simply isn’t in many workplaces - managers will simply keep on doing what they’ve always done and giving the opportunities to Rob who they know has been “making the effort” to come in and “be present” rather than Jane who’s been doing, “well, what has Jane been doing, I haven’t seen her do anything recently.”

@AFuturisticalSound

I wasn't aware that there was a "must" get back to the office but whatever wfh-ers think the service levels are just not as good as pre pandemic

In my job just in the past week I have had issues with poor phone quality of people obviously not in an office, not actually being able to speak to someone because she works at home which means a waste of time exchange of emails for something that could be explained by a conversation in a couple of minutes and waited endlessly in phone queues because "covid"

It's a huge drain on the overall economy trying to get back to normal

Maybe civil servants don't have customer contact but huge numbers of people do

The issue isn’t WFH but company staffing levels and unwillingness to invest in tech! During Covid many put their staff on furlough. The fact that the remaining WFH wasn’t the issue but the fact that there were so few of them.

@ComtesseDeSpair

Sure. But the problem doesn’t go away simply because you think it should or because you think managers need to get better at working out who’s working more efficiently at home and who’s just doing the bare minimum around school hours. Managers are people, and unless there’s an enormous impetus to change workplace culture and deeply held views - which there simply isn’t in many workplaces - managers will simply keep on doing what they’ve always done and giving the opportunities to Rob who they know has been “making the effort” to come in and “be present” rather than Jane who’s been doing, “well, what has Jane been doing, I haven’t seen her do anything recently.”

It really depends on your industry though. And team structure. My line manager knows what I’m doing because I take credit for it, make sure my work is visible and ask for more. Similarly gotten involved in organising all colleague events, being known as a subject matter expert.

If you’re the one people come to for advice it doesn’t matter. Thé question is how to cultivate your image based on what your org does?

Maybe because my org has always been hybrid based but so many people come in, sit at their desks I have no idea who they are. OTOH plenty of other people whose faces are always in newsletters, in emails talks etc and I’ve never seen them face to face but know their reputation.

My daughter managed five months in an office, post graduating, before covid hit. She was fortunate to have met her colleagues and got a feel for the job but found working from home lonely and missed so much from being surrounded by her team and the experience that comes with that.
She now has a new job, same organisation. She has never met her manager who is very hands off and her one other team member never has their screen on so she has never even seen them. It’s difficult and everything is so much harder than when learning surrounded by colleagues. To a young person, probably younger than most on this thread and just starting out, being stuck at home is not a good way to start a career or move on to independent adult life

Civil service, being mandated to work 2 days a week in office. It's quite frustrating because I work better at home and have better facilities as do my staff, but I'm a senior manager so I have to lead by example, I'm hoping 1 day a week will suffice which I'm happy for my teams to do but will have to see if we get picked up for it as we have to give weekly stats. I think it's important to play the game, our building was empty this week which is only going to make the execs go stricter so I really hope people can just go in one day a week at least before it threatens hybrid for us totally. The managers are the worst for it.

@nameswap48

Civil service, being mandated to work 2 days a week in office. It's quite frustrating because I work better at home and have better facilities as do my staff, but I'm a senior manager so I have to lead by example, I'm hoping 1 day a week will suffice which I'm happy for my teams to do but will have to see if we get picked up for it as we have to give weekly stats. I think it's important to play the game, our building was empty this week which is only going to make the execs go stricter so I really hope people can just go in one day a week at least before it threatens hybrid for us totally. The managers are the worst for it.

Generally speaking managers also have lives outside of work which WFh facilitates. Not sure if it’s the same for men who need the office as an excuse to wriggle out of family responsibilities.

@Bells3032

I get some people want to return to the office and i think they should have a right to. but i don't get the obsession that we "MUST" return to the office. Honestly, my DH and I have both been working from home. I am a public sector, he's private. his office have just started return but don't seem to be enforcing it much and they've also announced their best two years of profit ever.

I get some people e.g. those doing passports or probate etc would be much easier in the office as access to paperwork but my job is 100% computer based and I am far more productive at home.

1. no long commute so less tired plus less likelihood of being late.
2. no "nattering" in the office
3. no time wondering round looking for a desk in the morning and ending up with an inappropriate desk space because we are short. I have a proper desk and chair at home so less back pain
4. no trying to find meeting rooms - just hop on zoom and there everyone is
5. no spending time queuing for the toilet etc
6. less sickness as people not picking up bugs on the trains etc
7. they can sell some real estate or not pay as much rent

What actually would be the benefit to me or my employers to me returning to office? What is with the obsession? Could someone explain to me WHY I should return to the office?

Because the performance of the public sector back office staff has been SHOCKING since wfh.

DVLA, local council, social care, you name it, the non frontline public sector service has been shit for 18 months.

@TractorAndHeadphones everyone has lives outside of work, what I mean is, due to our middle management being the most reluctant it's making it harder to cascade the message down. If they just refuse it's only going to make the policy stricter which will impact everyone. I don't think 2 days in is necessary, but I'm hoping if my team show willing and go in one day it'll be enough to keep the execs happy. WFH helps me greatly too!

The dangers for women is that they end up doing everything. My friends say they feel like 1950s housewives who are also running a full time job.

And yes, stuck at home quietly getting on with it women will be overlooked for promotion.

It is about changing and challenging the system then, why are women overlooked wfh? Probably because it is deep rooted in sexist workplace practices that have historically never benefitted women like presenteeism. I appreciate young people etc. Might feel like they are missing out but again why does that mean people who tend to be older with DC are obliged to forgo that flexibility, usually that's women again so women making sacrifices for everyone it seems.

Also, as someone else pointed out it depends what sector you are in, I'm in data protection/ risk mgt some jobs have become fully remote in my area of work and far from demotion, opportunities are better.

The reason my dp brought everyone back months ago is that some employees were not working during working hours and others were simply inefficient at home. It's also not fair on the members of staff who have to be in eg warehouse staff. Unlike some businesses they had people cover in person throughout the pandemic and he went in weekly himself. Interestingly the only person who put up a fight about being back in full time was the same person who tried to get out of doing their covering shift during the first year of the pandemic, the one who was least productive at home, the one that isn't vaccinated and has recently quit.

Working at home isn't suitable for everyone, if you don't have a dedicated office space, good mobile phone reception, a quiet household etc

@2blackandwhitecats

Exactly. Whilst we coped working at home, I know I'm a lot more productive at work

I don't think that argument stacks up actually, if you are warehouse staff you have to expect that is your place of work, if you are performing badly at home then manage them. I mean it might be a good idea with the type of work yoir husband's company does. But ultimately we have different requirements for jobs and career paths hence why I wouldn't be a long distance lorry driver as at this stage in my life I want a job that uses my Masters degree and I can have flexibility as a parent. The economy benefits from attracting the best talent in the workplace this is not achievable if you have to stay at home for 10 years + if you have dared to have children or you are overlooked for promotion because you share childcare with your DH so you are both part time or both only able to work extra hours at home not in an office!

Sorry DP not husband

Luckily my DH is senior enough to be able to wfh on projects when he needs to as believe me the company would struggle if he had to finish things off in an office only! I am the same, part of my job needs a quick turn around due to legislative requirements so if it falls on the weekend I need to react as quickly as possible, in this case that time is better spent wfh than travelling to a place of work. The fact that I am willing to do that is based on the goodwill both ways. So I am pretty certain some staff at my organisation think it is not fair etc. But it is not really their concern and it is impossible for them to wfh as they are front line.

Where I work is between me and my employer.

The nanny state can do one.

We have a review of covid WFH slated for March 2022, but no one is expecting to return to the office then.

After the Brexit shafting this government are giving British business I'm surprised any employer would listen to them.

"The Brexit problems with supply chains and qualified staff are your own fault for not getting ready for stuff we told you was scaremongering and Project Fear"

Also, unlike the government, most people can learn from their mistakes and we all remember what happened the last time they chivvied employers to get everyone back to the office.

I can see why so many people are keen to stay working at home but as someone who has to go to the office it does start to feel like a rather unfair situation. Those who work from home can have spotless sickness records, they don't have to take holidays if bad weather means they can't get to the office, they can save loads of money on transport and yet there's endless mithering about having to go in one or two days a week.
Just because I have to attend the office doesn't mean I think everyone should be there, I do understand that for some people working from home is both practical and sensible but it does grate when people complain about how high their fuel bills will be over Winter whilst bragging about all the money they've saved.

Im also not sure why a lot keep saying how much more productive they are at home, surely it either means they were doing not much in the office, or businesses can cut the number of staff they have as everyone is so much more efficient.

No, the business could be making record profits and take on more work!

I suspect quite a few people will see their utility bills rocket when they're heating their homes for an extra 8 hours a day.

For the self employed, it's heating their home or place of work! No difference! DH and his partner pay about £9,000 pa in overheads on the office, business rates being the biggest expense - much cheaper to pay for central heating 8 hours a day in our house for half the year and sell the office!

Just to echo the point made by a lot of people on this thread- I much prefer home working, it has improved my standard of living immeasurably and I can do my job perfectly well at home - but a lot of people can’t. I run a graduate recruitment programme for a civil service department and whilst we have tried to replicate the learning environment through excellent and innovative use of technology, I have seen a marked deterioration in the quality of learning and the progress made by those who joined our scheme since covid hit. These hundreds of people, who will play a vital role in the civil service in future, are not achieving what we would like them to achieve because they aren’t getting the same benefits that countless others had starting a career in the office (as opposed to a desk in the corner of their bedrooms).

Certainly, depending on your role you may not have this consideration, but hybrid working at least is required to ensure we don’t have a real drop off of skills.

Honestly, the Tories say that they are anti-nanny state but then they want to tell people where to sit to do their work!