I feel terrible for how I’ve dealt with my daughters tantrums.

[PortobelloRoad2]

My daughter is 5 years old and recently, her tantrums have become a huge problem. She will just scream and scream and it can be over the smallest thing. She has a want for control over every tiny aspect of her life and it has been so difficult to manage.

I am feeling terrible because I have been asking her to go to her room, when things have escalated past a certain level. The trouble is, she will refuse. The screaming is so loud that i tell her she needs to go to her room because the screaming is hurting everyone’s ears.

She will then refuse to go, so at that point, I have been carrying her to her bedroom. She has been hitting and kicking at this point so it’s been really distressing for her and for all of us.

I have done this a handful of times and, although once in her room she will calm down, I feel like I’ve done the wrong thing as a parent and caused her more distress.

I put her in her room as a last resort because everything else hadn’t worked but I feel like I’ve failed her and I just hope that this hasn’t had a lasting negative impact on her.

There's a big difference between roughly shoving someone into their room and slamming the door behind them leaving a cloud of anger behind which is just more upset to process in an already overwhelmed mind. Or, taking them to their room calmy (outwardly at least) quietly putting them in the room and saying gently ill be back in minute closing the door quietly.
I remember being small and behaving badly and even when all my emotions were totally taking over and my mum was cross and telling me off, I still noticed (and remember to this day) that her hand when she took it to lead me away from the situation was a living touch even when her voice had anger in it. That touch transmitted her love and reassured me that this storm would pass (I wasn't enjoying it either). Being loved when you deserve it the least is the most powerful thing and touch cuts through everything.
So take her to the bedroom if it's needed just keep love in your touch and it won't traumatise her.
Reflect with her to help her (and you) understand what caused it and what happened later when all is calm and she can think again.

That's exactly what we used to do with DD1. She would eventually calm down. Much better for them to have a calm time out somewhere. This too will pass, OP. Keep buggering on.

Obviously you recognise this isn't ideal but it won't harm her. I would try and work on prevention so it doesn't get to this point. Have you learned about how to help children regulate their emotions?

She is old enough to read some of the books on this with you and for you to help her identify and manage big feelings.

usborne.com/gb/first-questions-and-answers-what-are-feelings-9781474948180

She should be in her room if she is like that!! Tell her it's for her to calm down!
God the world is getting so over delicate

My son goes to his room when he is like that it's normal

Annoying you have to carry her, I hate it when my son doesn't listen

I try really hard to nip that stuff in the bud and get my son distracted before it escalates to being sent to his room

I find this is really effective: getting down on her level, remaining calm even when it’s f&@king hard, holding and repeating the boundary “I understand you want chocolate, you’re not having chocolate now but I look forward to eating it with you at the weekend” (repeat repeat repeat). Cuddle through the tears the screams.

I am currently avoiding a friend who follows this method with her 6 year old son. He is a bright, intelligent child who has learned to throw massive tantrums because at worst the consequence is a cuddle, and although he may not get chocolate he has successfully controlled his mother (and everyone else) for the duration of the tantrum.

OP I think your way is better, but walking away would avoid the need to physically engage with her during the tantrum.

@PortobelloRoad2 I read this recently and thought of your daughter. Might be a quick reminder of where she is at. I love Bruce Perry’s work and that also applies to you. If your daughter has hurt you, or even if she is screaming, it’s understandable if you feel overwhelmed and your cognitive brain stops working. Take what you need to feel in control.

The link is www.thetherapistparent.com/post/why-parents-need-to-understand-brain-development

I hope it worked

I don't think you're doing anything wrong, but I understand you feel guilty. You have to break the cycle somehow when she's in tantrum mode. As long as you're not leaving her alone for hours after, there are lots of cuddles and you emphasise it's not a punishment it's fine IMO.

My 4 year old whips herself up on occasion and I leave the room, which she hates. It's the only way to diffuse the situation though because everything else I do just fuels her tantrum. Being human, I also start to feel angry or frustrated, so it's best all round to implement a physical break. After a couple of minutes, she calms down, I calm down, I go back and we sort things out.

@Stringofpearlz

I typed a long message and deleted.

If you have Instagram look up BigLittleFeelings, Dadvibes, CuriousParenting and Sarah Ockwell Smith.

I have no experience of SEND. However my 4 year old tantrums still and I personally wouldn’t put her in a room in her own. I think it could teacher her that she’s not allowed big emotions and she’ll be abandoned if she does. Young children still need help to regulate emotions. You need to understand the route cause and not the actions. I find this is really effective: getting down on her level, remaining calm even when it’s f&@king hard, holding and repeating the boundary “I understand you want chocolate, you’re not having chocolate now but I look forward to eating it with you at the weekend” (repeat repeat repeat). Cuddle through the tears the screams. I find this works 99% of the time and de escalates the situation quicker than arguing and losing my cool (which I’ve done in the past). I appreciate it sounds a bit woo but it seems to work. Hope this is useful.

I have a 5 year old who sometimes still tantrums and I have tried this type of approach and it seems only to make it worse. The only thing that helps is leaving him alone. But then I also found the Sarah Ockwell sleep advice useless too - it's like she only recognises one type of child (for whom closeness is always the answer)

I know how you feel. My concern was the same and I felt guilt as I thought that leaving dd when she was upset was like saying my presence was dependent upon her good behaviour, that my love was conditional. I managed this by making sure I explained to her they her behaviour didn't change my love for her, that I was right outside the door, that I would be back in 5 minutes, that she needed some quiet space to calm down not because I was mad. Sometimes this was explained afterwards. You are doing nothing wrong in getting some space for yourself either.

My dd had raging tantrums until this age too and it was so hard as she was so big. She's 10 now and they just vanished one day.

Unfortunately from my experience when they are in that angry screaming state no amount of talking helps.

If its calming her down once in the room then it's not a bad thing even if you are taking her there kicking and screaming. Allowing her to scream for an unknown amount of time will just upset her more.

When she's not feeling angry maybe try and talk to her about how she is feeling and why you take her up to her room and that it's not a punishment it's to calm down. Maybe say to her you don't understand her when she screams and talking is better.

Set up a behaviour chart kids love that with the stickers when they feel they have done something well like helped tidied away but not one where she's marked down for doing something wrong as that could upset her.

Your doing a fantastic job there's no right or wrong no real manual for this as each child is different you just have to feel your way through this.

I wish you and your family all the best

I do this with my 4 year old DD (well, out into the hallway as at 8 months pregnant I can’t carry her safely up the stairs).

In DDs case, she’s been referred for ASD assessment and taking her to a different space can help. She often shouts ‘stop talking to me’ and covers her ears when she gets like this, so she definitely needs the quiet space to calm down.

Every child is different OP, if it helps her calm down then it’s fine. Being shown that her behaviour isn’t acceptable and given a safe space to calm down in isn’t going to damage her. And giving yourself a moment to step away from her kicking and hitting is necessary.

If you're worried about hurting her by carrying her upstairs then can you designate a space downstairs as a time out zone where she can be put to calm down and stop screaming?

If I’m honest, I’ve left her in there so that I can have a moment to myself, having just been hit and kicked all the way up the stairs.

Definitely sort out a space downstairs where she can be put to calm down! Carrying her upstairs is dangerous if she's doing that.

Might be worth employing time out earlier in the tantrum rather than waiting until she's incandescent with rage. Identifying the point where she's starting to lose control and sending her to time out at that point might help her learn how to handle her own emotions a bit better. Worked for mine.

I had this problem every now and then with my second. I really couldn't be bothered wrestling him to his room most of the time so I just used to put him out of whatever room I was in and shut the door. I would tell him he couldn't come back in with me until he stopped making that noise because he was hurting my head and I couldn't hear anything else.
Who knows if that worked, he's still a determined, stubborn bugger, bit he now basically wispers when he's angry 🤣

@Stringofpearlz

I typed a long message and deleted.

If you have Instagram look up BigLittleFeelings, Dadvibes, CuriousParenting and Sarah Ockwell Smith.

I have no experience of SEND. However my 4 year old tantrums still and I personally wouldn’t put her in a room in her own. I think it could teacher her that she’s not allowed big emotions and she’ll be abandoned if she does. Young children still need help to regulate emotions. You need to understand the route cause and not the actions. I find this is really effective: getting down on her level, remaining calm even when it’s f&@king hard, holding and repeating the boundary “I understand you want chocolate, you’re not having chocolate now but I look forward to eating it with you at the weekend” (repeat repeat repeat). Cuddle through the tears the screams. I find this works 99% of the time and de escalates the situation quicker than arguing and losing my cool (which I’ve done in the past). I appreciate it sounds a bit woo but it seems to work. Hope this is useful.

I think this would work for an angry child who was trying to get their way, but for a child who has become overwhelmed and is no longer computing having more verbal input would (although it is better than parent losing control) just exacerbate the overload, as even a simple phrase on repeat is still more to process. So it depends what the outburst is (child trying to dominate parent, or child caught in a storm of overwhelming feelings). If she is in a storm, space, calm, being nearby for emotional security but not expecting her to take anything in until she's calm is all that's needed imo. But working out the triggers and seeing if they can be mitigated would make everyone happier. (that might not mean taking them away, it could be teaching her to recognise her own triggers so she can take a step back, or if she is misinterpreting something as needing control when it doesn't, some guidance to refreshment her perspective, which might take time and only when she's calm and can reflect on what happened - age appropriate obviously)

When the tantrum is done your trains counts too. So a lovely hug and recover together having a constructive chat about it rather than shamed makes a difference too

@121Sarah121

Look at the therapeutic parenting, co-regulation, self regulation and Dan Hughes’s PACE parenting. Might give you confidence in what you are doing.

My son is 6 and has significant trauma which means he dysregulates frequently (has tantrums). I used to carry him kicking and screaming to his room (safe space) but now he goes when asked and we can carry out some techniques for co and more recently self regulation (play, listen to music, dance, favourite books all help).

Absolutely this @PortobelloRoad2 There's a really good book but also stuff on YouTube and guidance online. I would really recommend this approach.

Your child needs to learn how to self-regulate and how to manage their huge emotions but needs you to help them do that.

She needs a firm hand, if there isn't anything else going on, 5 is quite old to be having tantrums like that. So no I wouldn't feel guilty though it sounds like you need some support.

@TheYearOfSmallThings avoiding a friend is a bit extreme grin

And yet I am not alone in avoiding them, because every trip or day out involves at least one tantrum, and even the other children are bored of it.

I have never seen that parenting technique work in any case, but this is the only time I have had to watch it repeatedly, close up, with a child and parent I know well.

@nameswap48

She needs a firm hand, if there isn't anything else going on, 5 is quite old to be having tantrums like that. So no I wouldn't feel guilty though it sounds like you need some support.

What does 'a firm hand' mean?

What she actually needs is help to manage her emotions.

What sort of things cause the tantrums? We realised with our dd, who went through a tantrum patch at about 6yo, that they usually happened when we were treating her as if she was still a toddler and giving her no say in her own life which would then cause an issue. Pretty much as soon as we reset (I read Phillipa graysons book which was an eye opener) and starting treating her more grown up (so making her own choices where appropriate, making her own drinks, actually giving her jobs in the house and generally not barking orders at her ) she improved loads. We did talk to her about our change of approach, sat her down in a calm moment and had a family chat about the things we were all going to do differently ( ie I wasn’t going to do military mum in the morning anymore which stressed her out and she would do her thing without messing about e.g). It worked pretty quickly and we were able to avoid all tantrums before they started - I don’t know if this will help but thought as your dd is 5 it might be helpful