Is it sustainable to be idealistic/not be concerned about money (when you have none)

[onlychildhamster]

DH and I were talking about his younger sister who is going to israel for an internship trip. She has an arts degree and only wants to do 'creative jobs' (marketing roles in the creative seçtor) which don't involve Excel/Microsoft suite. DH (who works in an investment bank so probably not an expert on creative jobs to be fair) tried to tell her most jobs nowadays would require some knowledge of excel. She said that his job was too 'admin' and wouldn't suit her and she was terrified of 'falling and being trapped in such a job'. I am a bit perplexed at this, as from my viewpoint, a job would be an improvement. I mean, currently she is on UC and earns so little from freelance tutoring that she doesn't pay NI. This is quite understandable as she just graduated during a pandemic so it is very hard. I am in my 20s so I can clearly remember being a fresh graduate as it wasn't that long ago

But when I was her age, I was so terrified of being jobless that I wouldn't have written off any 'serious job' because it wasn't my ideal job. I studied law but wasn't fixed on being a lawyer so applied for jobs in finance. I was scared I would not be able to afford London rent in the long term if I didn't buy my flat so I stayed with in laws for 3 years so we could buy our flat. I even postponed our wedding for years so that we could buy our flat and we only managed to do so in 2019. The fear of not being able to afford to live seems to be the main motivator for many of my decisions even if we are objectively fairly ok finances wise. I think it's because I come from a country where there isn't a welfare state so my first thought is always - how can I afford this and if not, what can I do to afford it (whether now or in the future).

But maybe I got it all wrong. My SIL never worries about how to earn money to afford things (she just tried to find the cheapest room and the cheapest food; and then applies for benefits and grants). And it all kind of works out. I mean her lifestyle is very simple but it's not terrible either, she has enough food and clothes and yes she can't go shopping the way I do but that's not the end of the world. I fear having no money because I automatically associate it with movies like ' I Daniel blake' etc but this isn't her reality. She and my DH are from a poor family, her mum lived this way too but had some help from family which she wouldn't have.

I just wonder if she can live like this forever which would be positive for her as she can then do the jobs she wants and focus on her passions rather than worry about bread and butter issues. And if she can do so, why are we worrying so much about bread and butter/cos of living issues (judging by the number of threads on Mumsnet)? Her mum had 4 kids and has a similar mentality/lifestyle/low earnings and has scraped through thus far (not sure how much of it is due to family help) so this isn't an issue of pre children life Vs 20s life.

@SmileyClare she earns around £400 a month in tutoring, hence the need for UC.

There are plenty like her

What are you basing this on? As has been explained previously, the new structure of UC means anyone not attending interviews arranged for them by their work coach or refusing job offers has their money stopped.

Any claimant not in work after 6 months on UC without valid reason backed up by evidence (of health, conditions, disability or full time training) is classed as intentionally unemployed and benefits are removed.

There aren't plenty of people refusing work and living it up on benefits, lounging about drinking Tenants in their front garden, despite what you might have seen on channel 5 or read in the Daily Mail.

Ok so she earns less than I thought. My point was I think it's out of line to label a recent graduate who has worked part time while studying and is being proactive at securing a career in that field as a "work shy sponger"

I think that's very blinkered and unfair.

I know what you mean op. I do a job I don’t enjoy just for financial reasons. I would be too scared to “follow my dreams” because how would I pay the bills? I definitely admire that mindset in a way but I think she is able to be like that because she has things to fall back on and others to support her(eg your dh to buy her phone, family home to live in, universal credit to top up her earnings).

I would be too scared because, like you, I grew up without those things and have to take care of myself (and now dds). I think in the long run maybe building up financial security gives more choices but it definitely seems like a slog. I would love to be a free spirit but I don’t like the idea of being a burden on those around me.

@SmileyClare Well I didn't say she was workshy. She is very hardworking actually when it comes to her passion. She can practice up to 10 hours a day. But unfortunately, that doesn't pay the bills. And i am not entirely sure the internship would bring her any closer to earning an income that pays bills (in whatever country). The internship doesn't pay any money and while it probably does boost the CV, it doesn't directly lead to a job per se. I am not sure how much UK employers will recognize it, and Iooking for a job in a new country where you don't speak the language (Israel) probably has its own difficulties (though many American and British Jews have managed it but equally there is the depressing stat that 60% of Western olim/new immigrants have returned to their home countries despite receiving financial/job support from the Israeli government!)

Israel has a growing economy but my SIL (like her older sister) doesn't speak Hebrew (they can read biblical hebrew and would be learning modern hebrew which the government provides free lessons for). So this does restrict the jobs she can apply for given that Hebrew is the default language of the land though of course English is very widely spoken and there are jobs which only require English . Moving to a new country where you are not fluent in the language does require much more flexibility regarding jobs.

So basically you're saying that people who can't afford to go to university and train in a field they are talented and passionate about shouldn't pursue those opportunities? They shouldn't claim the benefits or grants they are entitled to help them achieve their goals?

Should that just be a preserve for the rich kids? Any other teen wanting to go to university and pursue a career is a burden on the state?

Securing a career in a field you're qualified to degree level in would likely pay far better in the long run than taking unskilled work.

Does she want to do marketing or gigs?

One is harder than the other, I also missed the new country thing which is tough re language (of no consequence we’re in a phase of watching shows with Hebrew love the sound of it)

Sorry Op, my last post was in reply to CayrolBaaaskin.

@MarshaBradyo i talked to her mum yesterday. I think the marketing thing was my DH misunderstanding her- she has a selection of internships to apply for and of course most of them have nothing to do with music or art. There was an internship which was working in a company that helps upstart musicians market their work/gives advice to them and she is applying for that. Ideally she wants to do gigs but she knows she needs a job to supplement that (but she somehow also wants the filler job to be creative too).

Re Israel, her older sister doesn't have great hebrew but is working for an American company in tel aviv as art director. So it is perfectly possible.

To each her own. Your SIL has only just graduated so it's a bit soon to be saying she should do X or Y. I have plenty of friends who bummed around a bit in their 20s then became more security-focused later on. Also friends who set their heart on a creative dream and actually achieved it and now have both money and career satisfaction- it does happen.

OTOH, if she's being sneery about people who've made other choices, I'd have limited patience.