Is it sustainable to be idealistic/not be concerned about money (when you have none)

[onlychildhamster]

DH and I were talking about his younger sister who is going to israel for an internship trip. She has an arts degree and only wants to do 'creative jobs' (marketing roles in the creative seçtor) which don't involve Excel/Microsoft suite. DH (who works in an investment bank so probably not an expert on creative jobs to be fair) tried to tell her most jobs nowadays would require some knowledge of excel. She said that his job was too 'admin' and wouldn't suit her and she was terrified of 'falling and being trapped in such a job'. I am a bit perplexed at this, as from my viewpoint, a job would be an improvement. I mean, currently she is on UC and earns so little from freelance tutoring that she doesn't pay NI. This is quite understandable as she just graduated during a pandemic so it is very hard. I am in my 20s so I can clearly remember being a fresh graduate as it wasn't that long ago

But when I was her age, I was so terrified of being jobless that I wouldn't have written off any 'serious job' because it wasn't my ideal job. I studied law but wasn't fixed on being a lawyer so applied for jobs in finance. I was scared I would not be able to afford London rent in the long term if I didn't buy my flat so I stayed with in laws for 3 years so we could buy our flat. I even postponed our wedding for years so that we could buy our flat and we only managed to do so in 2019. The fear of not being able to afford to live seems to be the main motivator for many of my decisions even if we are objectively fairly ok finances wise. I think it's because I come from a country where there isn't a welfare state so my first thought is always - how can I afford this and if not, what can I do to afford it (whether now or in the future).

But maybe I got it all wrong. My SIL never worries about how to earn money to afford things (she just tried to find the cheapest room and the cheapest food; and then applies for benefits and grants). And it all kind of works out. I mean her lifestyle is very simple but it's not terrible either, she has enough food and clothes and yes she can't go shopping the way I do but that's not the end of the world. I fear having no money because I automatically associate it with movies like ' I Daniel blake' etc but this isn't her reality. She and my DH are from a poor family, her mum lived this way too but had some help from family which she wouldn't have.

I just wonder if she can live like this forever which would be positive for her as she can then do the jobs she wants and focus on her passions rather than worry about bread and butter issues. And if she can do so, why are we worrying so much about bread and butter/cos of living issues (judging by the number of threads on Mumsnet)? Her mum had 4 kids and has a similar mentality/lifestyle/low earnings and has scraped through thus far (not sure how much of it is due to family help) so this isn't an issue of pre children life Vs 20s life.

Are you still working op?

@MarshaBradyo yep!

@AlphabetAerobics my DH isn't an investment banker, he just works for an investment bank! We were students when we married.

And she doesn't have a job, that was the whole point of the post. She has a band that does free gigs for now, does tutoring. And

@AlphabetAerobics and I wasn't looking down on her. I mean, her job prospects were pretty much decimated by the pandemic and it was always hard for young creatives so it's perfectly understandable to be on UC. I would expect a lot of airline staff/pilots to be on UC too. But I would be equally surprised if pilots and other airline staff refused to take on any other jobs until they got their jobs back in aviation as it's quite obvious to me that it would be a long time before aviation returns to 2019 level. It's kinda the same for her- we can all have ideals about the kind of job we want but eventually we still need to pay the bills.

So the home she can always go back to is owned by your MIL, if the natural order of life occurs she will die before your SIL. Then the home will be sold or rented out. None of us can expect parents to always be available.

Many people have a very tough life through circumstances beyond their control but if she actively chooses that path she then has to live that life. If someone lectured me on being too creative to use excel I would enjoy telling them what a massive twat they are.

Helping younger or less fortunate relatives is a privilege, I have done it myself but not because they are too affected and full of fanciful notions.

@TheUnbearable if the money doesn't go to care, the house would be worth at least a million by the time MIL passes on and this is conservative- probably a lot more in 20 years (she is nearly 60 and she is likely to live fairly long). It is currently worth 700k- zone 3 north London terrace. Unless it all goes to care (which is now capped at 80k and MIL is sole owner of the house as she is divorced), I expect each sibling (4 of them) to get 200k (in today's terms). I expect she would be able to get something up north for that.

Most people in the arts have survival jobs alongside/inbetween work in their field, especially when starting out.

Tbh many who do go into marketing just do that. It’s not really the arts sector. It is the creative sector but that’s fine the U.K. is strong in that.

Maybe she can get filler work if following op’s advice but not sure what she’s thinking - doing what

Has she ever been really broke? It’s oh so easy to say you’re not bothered about money, when you’ve always had plenty, or even just enough.

A dd of mine once told me she ‘didn’t care’ about money. I don’t mind admitting that I had a major go at her - unlike me and dh in our youths she had absolutely no idea of what it was like to have very little and no back up source. She had not long graduated, was in quite a well paid job she really disliked, and before she was earning there had always been the bank of mum and dad.

She did seriously sort her ideas out, though, after almost accidentally falling into a career she was much better suited to while travelling, working her way around and really having to watch the pennies, since we’d made it crystal clear that M&D help would be forthcoming only in the direst of dire emergencies.

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER what's the definition of broke. In my mind, she is broke as she is surviving on UC but it seems to work out ok for her. Not homeless or going hungry or in masses of personal debt. I just wonder if it can continue..

Her mum managed 4 kids on a low income and even managed to buy a house in London but that was in the 1990s and she had significant family help (which my SIL wouldn't have)... I mean with the high house prices and general cost of living circa 2021, I didn't even think that it's possible to go through life without a regular job from my own calculations and my perspective but it seems I am wrong.

[quote onlychildhamster]@TheUnbearable if the money doesn't go to care, the house would be worth at least a million by the time MIL passes on and this is conservative- probably a lot more in 20 years (she is nearly 60 and she is likely to live fairly long). It is currently worth 700k- zone 3 north London terrace. Unless it all goes to care (which is now capped at 80k and MIL is sole owner of the house as she is divorced), I expect each sibling (4 of them) to get 200k (in today's terms). I expect she would be able to get something up north for that.[/quote]
Isn’t the £80k for the care element only, not the ‘hotel’ element of care home costs? Which will be much greater.

Of course if someone only needs carers coming in at home, that’s a different matter, but that often isn’t enough, especially if dementia is involved or someone is very prone to falling.

I think it’s easy for her to be unconcerned about money because she has a safety net. Her mum owns the family home which she could live in if things went wrong and she has a generous brother who gives expensive gifts.

If you are really surviving on benefits and nothing else, no family to top you up, it’s very difficult. On one hand there is just the fact that it isn’t a lot of money, then there is the added stress of worrying about if you’ve applied correctly, will your benefits be stopped, will it cover xyz. I’m lucky not to live on them anymore and hope my kids never have to survive on benefits.

To me ‘broke’ would be counting out pennies, having to choose between electricity and food, rationing out things like bread and toilet paper to ensure they last. She sounds like she realistically has a pretty comfortable life.

Perhaps not the nicest thing to say, but I don’t believe she should really be on benefits. She is a healthy adult who could work and is choosing not to - the benefits system is there to support those who are out of work and/or can’t work, not those who like a more relaxed lifestyle. I say that as someone who has lived on benefits, so I’m not speaking from a position of extreme privilege where I could simply never imagine being on benefits and so look down on those who are. I just think it’s a bit naive to say oh I’m not that bothered about money so I’ll just sign on.

I was like her when I graduated, although not to the point of needing to go on UC or whatever the equivalent was then, and I regret it now. Mostly because even 'creative' office jobs are pretty boring when you're doing them every day so you might as well at least try to make money while sitting at a computer... I think to change career to a more lucrative field I would likely have to take a pay cut at least for a few years while I skilled up... This makes me reluctant even if it would pay dividends in the long run.

My sil is like this and at 36 seems perfectly happy with her lot.

Morally, i don't think it is right to live on benefits out of choice.

Some people can live very simple, unmaterialistic lives without many outgoings and this is admirable, but she does need to be able to sustain herself. I'd be wondering why she isn't self employed if she cannot contemplate being employed in a job that isn't 100% tailored to her personal whims.

@MrsTophamHat she is self employed but its only a few hundred pounds a month which is t really an income.

Give her a break, she's just graduated and is heading off on an internship trip which is great experience and could well open doors to a career.

20 year-olds often have naive idealistic opinions on life. I'm sure that will change.

Who is funding her trip?

Fair enough, but she does need to cover her expenses. UC is there for people who have no other choice.

@SmileyClare the Israeli government as she got max grant. And some of her savings. She has a strict budget for food and the Israeli government makes it affordable by making all the interns share rooms etc. Her older sister did it a few years ago on a shoestring budget and it worked out but then her older sis managed to get a job in Israel and also made aliyah which the Israeli government helped out with.

@SmileyClare she is 26 so 3 years younger than me.

I think she's doing quite well. She's just graduated, has set herself up working free lance and has organised herself an internship which should further her career. She also has savings so must be quite financially savvy. Not many graduates in their twenties have savings; most are heavily in debt.

I'd take some of her comments about being a free spirit or whatever with a pinch of salt.

@Athrawes

I have a friend like this. Her lifestyle is only sustainable because she claims various benefits. So, she thinks she is self sustaining but actually it's me, the tax payer, who is funding her choice of lifestyle. She could work in a more lucrative role but chooses not to.

exactly!

* She's in her 20s and sounds like she is doing fine to me.*

^Yeah subsidising her laziness with Universal Credit is completely fine isn’t it

* Morally, i don't think it is right to live on benefits out of choice.*

^I don’t either. People like this take the piss.