DfE considering making teachers work for free to make up for lack of catch-up funding

[noblegiraffe]

With the upcoming spending review looking like it will hit education hard with little extra cash for catch-up, the DfE is reportedly now considering simply making teachers do it for free.

They are considering a proposal to remove the 1265 hours cap on teachers ‘directed time’ which would mean schools could add hours to the school day and just timetable teachers to teach them for no extra pay.

This, to a sector which is already critically short of teachers, will only damage recruitment further, and push more teachers out of the profession.

They are flailing around trying to come up with solutions to problems of their own making that will, in fact, only make things worse. Absolute idiots.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/01/dfe-considering-return-of-sats-at-14-and-axing-teaching-hours-limits

It won’t happen, what normally happens is teachers want 5 % pay rise and government says none and then they agree on 1%. Unions wants 3% this year government say none. Unions will agree 1% and no extra work load or 3% and removal of 1265.1265 is no longer applicable in private or academies (most schools are no academy) anyway. But if one academy ups teaching load and reduces non contact time staff won’t apply there.

One of my best friends is an outstanding teacher has been nominated for teacher of the year etc and went to work for a special measures / inadequate school as wanted to make a difference was an academy - first of all lesson observations once every 4 weeks ranked 2,3 or 4 you were out on a support plan to ‘make you outstanding our aim’ ranked ‘1’ you have to mentor those ranked 2,3,4 and share ‘what makes you outstanding’ meanwhile management spent their life saying ‘no poor behaviour just poor teachers’ every year 15-20 teachers left (large secondary) she lasted 2 years and on the edge of the nervous breakdown - and she was ‘required to do pizza Friday catch up
And Saturday school for free - phrased in such a way you could not refuse ie this is the Rotafor the team and due to being an academy ‘summer catch up’ expected so all the naughty kids whose behaviour was shitty didn’t behave and the required to go in on Saturday etc so she had to teach it twice etc she resigned and moved to an outstanding private. She has never had an observation - they trust her to do her job, no Saturday, she work and hour later but they have an hour extra at lunch (so sane teaching time) classes of 12, a month extra in the summer, two weeks each half term and an extra week at Christmas and Easter - and more pay (less marking as small class) nice behaved kids and she is different person. I saw her yesterday and asked her two years In how they compare and she says she would go back to state in a million years. Meanwhile the special measures school she used to work in - goes from Trust to trust and has been in special measures for 10 years - if it comes out into required improvements give it a year it will be back in - they can not recruit and no outstanding teacher wants to work it in

2006 sounds right to me, @NemoSurprise21, it’s when New Labour demolished museums and libraries too.

Worth remembering when people on this thread try to make this a simplistic political Labour v Tories narrative. Starmer’s signalling a return to New Labour, and many of us remember exactly what they stand for.

I do enough extra hours outside of my paid work ..I'm not doing more!

Worth remembering when people on this thread try to make this a simplistic political Labour v Tories narrative

You appear to be the one trying to do that. You can't defend a shit
Tory government by harking back over a decade to the previous Labour one.

The Tories have been running schools into the ground with extreme funding cuts and by demonising the teaching profession. Parents should be very concerned.

We do more than directed hours anyways!

How have I done that exactly? I made an observation based on the number of times I’ve seen pps complaining that it’s all the fault of people who vote Tories.

All governments have been shit. I take it you’re not a teacher of history? 2006 is the date mentioned in @NemoSurprise21’s post, and I was immediately interested as that matched my experience elsewhere. We need to re-establish communication between people outside 3 word slogans, or we might as well break out the swords and axes now.

meanwhile management spent their life saying ‘no poor behaviour just poor teachers’ every year 15-20 teachers left

Your poor friend wishing

Sounds like an appalling school. I’d consider striking over this. Many kids can’t handle a longer school day. Neither can the teachers, where will they did time to plan their lessons? Let alone mark anything.

IME of 28 years, even more damage was done during the Blair era than subsequently, and that is saying something.

At the time, arch-hypocrite Blair had his children commuting halfway across London having got them into the Oratory while telling everyone else in the country to accept places at their nearest schools.

This was while repeating his 'education, education, education' mantra.

Even Gove was not that hypocritical, and that is saying something.

I made an observation based on the number of times I’ve seen pps complaining that it’s all the fault of people who vote Tories

Certainly if anyone voted Tory in recent elections and is disappointed to find that they don't give a shit about kids or education then they should have been paying more attention.

People were prioritising other stuff in the last election though. Education funding was certainly seem as one of the reasons that Theresa May lost her majority in 2017 and there was massive interest around it then, but then interest seemed to tail off even though conditions didn't improve.

I don't know why more parents aren't up in arms about this lack of catch-up support for children post-pandemic. Sir Kevan Collins' proposals would have benefited all children, even the ones whose parents can afford tutors. There were very vocal groups who claimed to be speaking up for children during the pandemic who are extremely quiet on this issue, for example.

IME of 28 years, even more damage was done during the Blair era than subsequently

Who gives a shit about the Blair era when the Tories are destroying education right now?

Not sure tbh giraffe.

I think that this might have been going on for years with enforced intervention sessions and so on.

I was head of English once. I remember sitting in an assembly with year 10 when the VP announced that they’d all be doing an extra hour of English after school on a Wednesday. Academies can generally do as they wish. Primary may be different of course.

It'll never happen though, the unions will see to that.

The teaching unions are completely useless these days

It was awful teaching in the Blair / brown years tbf. I don’t know if there’s ever been a ‘good’ time for education.

There already isn’t enough hours in the day for everything that needs doing as a teacher. It’ll never work. Other areas will just suffer and more teachers will leave the profession

@WhenSheWasBad

There’s a big difference between ‘can’t handle’ a longer school day and can’t be arsed.

The DC in Korea study for 16 hours every day. Clearly that’s not what’s being advocated here, but the vast majority of students and teachers can cope perfectly well with an extra hour of maths or English.

but the vast majority of students and teachers can cope perfectly well with an extra hour of maths or English.

Why are you advocating not paying teachers for it?

@noblegiraffe

IME of 28 years, even more damage was done during the Blair era than subsequently

Who gives a shit about the Blair era when the Tories are destroying education right now?

My point was that Blair was the one who broke the golden rule about QTS teachers having to take classes, at a stroke enabling 'managements' to put any warm body in front of a class.

I witnessed a huge number of desperately keen, but not very competent, warm bodies try to jump into the barrels of sh*t that these 'managements' told them to because they wanted a term-time job.

Still they proliferate, and this is a key factor which has enabled the current comprehensive shafting of qualified and competent teachers.

These 'extra hours' WILL be filled, but it won't be by qualified teachers who already have their backs to the wall.

The current Tories may well be guilty of contributing to the ongoing destruction of education, but it started in the Blair era.

[quote GreenLakes]@WhenSheWasBad

There’s a big difference between ‘can’t handle’ a longer school day and can’t be arsed.

The DC in Korea study for 16 hours every day. Clearly that’s not what’s being advocated here, but the vast majority of students and teachers can cope perfectly well with an extra hour of maths or English.[/quote]
What age group do you teach?

These 'extra hours' WILL be filled, but it won't be by qualified teachers

That's exactly what the proposals are, to remove the 1265 hours directed time.

OK, fair point Noble, but I think even the thickest government minister knows that that is never going to happen.

As with the use of non-QTS staff, these 'extra hours' will be staffed with warm bodies, competent or not.

@Willtherebeoctobersnow

It was awful teaching in the Blair / brown years tbf. I don’t know if there’s ever been a ‘good’ time for education.

I taught in the Blair/Brown years. There were some irritating things that were implemented but on the whole it was hugely better than now. I had LSA support in class for any child with any sort of additional learning needs plus regular specialist support as there was an understanding that generalist class teachers did not have the specialist knowledge and understanding for every pupil with additional needs. There were still a lot of expectations and hard work but the funding and support were in a different league to today. The curriculum was broader and more balanced, certainly in primary school and there were measures to keep good teachers in place. I learned so much from more experienced members of staff when I was new to the profession. Now vast numbers quit within the first few years.

They’re already being staffed with warm bodies done on the cheap by a Danish firm with no experience.

Those warm bodies expect payment though, which is why the Tories are now looking to get the work done for free.

@noblegiraffe

Teachers are not paid by the hour. They are salaried employees, which means no ‘overtime’ is payable.

Just like many other salaried roles, additional hours occasionally need to be undertaken and these are not paid.

[quote GreenLakes]@noblegiraffe

Teachers are not paid by the hour. They are salaried employees, which means no ‘overtime’ is payable.

Just like many other salaried roles, additional hours occasionally need to be undertaken and these are not paid.[/quote]
Occasionally need to be taken?

What year group do you teach?

[quote GreenLakes]@noblegiraffe

Teachers are not paid by the hour. They are salaried employees, which means no ‘overtime’ is payable.

Just like many other salaried roles, additional hours occasionally need to be undertaken and these are not paid.[/quote]
No one in teaching expects to do only their official hours. What all of the teachers on this thread are saying is that as we already so vastly beyond our official hours - then this proposal will lead to burn out and poorer quality lessons.

Teachers do plenty of unpaid additional hours as it is. It isn't "occasional", it's daily.