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Original poster

DfE considering making teachers work for free to make up for lack of catch-up funding

182 replies

noblegiraffe · 02/10/2021 14:52

With the upcoming spending review looking like it will hit education hard with little extra cash for catch-up, the DfE is reportedly now considering simply making teachers do it for free.

They are considering a proposal to remove the 1265 hours cap on teachers ‘directed time’ which would mean schools could add hours to the school day and just timetable teachers to teach them for no extra pay.

This, to a sector which is already critically short of teachers, will only damage recruitment further, and push more teachers out of the profession.

They are flailing around trying to come up with solutions to problems of their own making that will, in fact, only make things worse. Absolute idiots.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/oct/01/dfe-considering-return-of-sats-at-14-and-axing-teaching-hours-limits

OP posts:
itsgettingwierd · 02/10/2021 18:18

@over2021

There will be little public support for teachers on this. Average Joe who works in an office with 28 days holiday will work closer to 1800 hours.

Whilst I don't think teaching is an easy job I also don't think it's the hardest by a long mile.

Teachers don't get paid for 52 weeks of the year. So of course their directed time will be less.

Schools are having same issues with support staff too. They get paid 40 weeks and school runs 39 weeks.

That's 5 insets. Many are giving TAs insets off to be in during summer to set up. Meaning they also can't keep training up to date.

They also will only pay school hours yet expect staff to come in and help set up and not leave until the last child has.

They are taking the loss out of education staff and cutting their pay in real time whilst at its

MrsHamlet · 02/10/2021 18:19

Yes, but only in limited circumstances.
But many won't because they believe that it's anti-child to do so. The "in it for the children" thing is a strong force.

savagebaggagemaster · 02/10/2021 18:29

@MrsHamlet

Yes, but only in limited circumstances. But many won't because they believe that it's anti-child to do so. The "in it for the children" thing is a strong force.
Indeed and this is what the government is banking on.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education
Stevenage689 · 02/10/2021 18:30

Grin if 1265 was the total working hours, I would only need to work until 1st December and be done until next academic year!

I have been at work before 7:30 every day this month. Left near 6 (5 on a Friday) I take lunch at my desk or eat with the children. I usually manage a wee at 3:15 when the kids leave. 50 hour work week is enough. I will not be doing more, so if the teaching day is extended, my class will not be receiving teaching of the same quality they do now.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 02/10/2021 18:34

We’re allowed to strike over pay and conditions which is why the last national strike was ostensibly about pensions but really it was about Gove’s disastrous and rushed curriculum and exam reforms.

We’re not allowed to strike about stuff like cuts to school funding, cuts to SEN funding, cuts to pupil premium funding, cuts to CAMHs services or the many other ways the Tories have shafted children and education in recent years.

Parents should really be asking why the government is so unwilling to spend money on children and education. It can’t be because our PM doesn’t even look after his own kids as this goes back to before him. It’s a party policy.

OP posts:
Stevenage689 · 02/10/2021 18:38

@Stevenage689

Grin if 1265 was the total working hours, I would only need to work until 1st December and be done until next academic year!

I have been at work before 7:30 every day this month. Left near 6 (5 on a Friday) I take lunch at my desk or eat with the children. I usually manage a wee at 3:15 when the kids leave. 50 hour work week is enough. I will not be doing more, so if the teaching day is extended, my class will not be receiving teaching of the same quality they do now.

Whoops! It's good that my class can do better maths than me! Of course, I meant mid-Feb. So under 6 months of work would get me/most teachers to 1265 hours.
Purplepeoniesdroppingpetals · 02/10/2021 18:42

It’s Saturday. I’ve just done four hours of lesson prep. I’m going to try to avoid school work tomorrow because I’d like to see my own kid and dh. Instead, I’ll choose to work all of Monday on my day off. It’s ridiculous as it is, but anyone saying that they’re enforcing extra hours for free can frankly kiss my fat arse. You won’t see me or my colleagues for dust.

SnugKnights · 02/10/2021 18:52

@noblegiraffe

I've been asked many times why don't teachers go out on strike? It is a good question.

When teachers go out on strike, we get massive abuse in the media and online (including on MN). Striking has also in the past made fuck all difference to our working conditions, so there's a 'what's the point?' element. A lot of teachers have come to the conclusion that things won't change and have just quit instead.

Other than email our MP’s (which I have done) any other suggestions of things parents could do to express our absolute disgust at the plans?
Iggly · 02/10/2021 18:59

Other than email our MP’s (which I have done) any other suggestions of things parents could do to express our absolute disgust at the plans?

Stop voting Tory. I’m not sure when people will learn.

MovingtoEssex · 02/10/2021 19:18

@over2021 but if I recall correctly there is some wording that says something along the lines of ....and whatever additional time is needed to discharge duties correctly.

It would be amazing if a trust allowed the job to be completed within the 1265 hours.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 02/10/2021 19:19

If you email your MP, Snug and ask that your concern be forwarded to the Secretary of State for Education then you should be able to get a response from the DfE even though Zahawi isn't your MP. I've had a response from Nick Gibb when he was Schools Minister from something I sent to my MP.

OP posts:
QueenofLouisiana · 02/10/2021 19:23

After 23 years in the classroom, I am currently applying for a job outside of teaching.

I’ve loved my job but I think I’m done now. These latest ideas just remind me that I need to get out. I don’t expect I’ll be alone in this.

Watermelonsugarhi · 02/10/2021 19:24

I'm not a teacher but my partner is and this is just awful. She already does so many more hours extra a week. She regularly burns out as she's stressed enough with being pressured to assess children and churn out data. Let alone the relentless planning. I say make the head of education work a month in the role and then see what they think!!

MasterGland · 02/10/2021 19:28

I think a strike would be terrible for the profession. Teachers do not have the support of the public. A strike would be the final nail in the coffin. Even threats to quit are not effective, as the government have been quietly moving to a high turnover, low experience model. They only care about the annual recruitment numbers, not the retention figures. What they want is for fresh grads to teach for a few years, and then leave.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 02/10/2021 19:31

They only care about the annual recruitment numbers, not the retention figures.

However they have failed to meet their recruitment targets for key subjects like maths, physics and computer science for years, and even during a pandemic and with massive bursaries so this strategy isn't paying off is it?

OP posts:
Hulkynothunky · 02/10/2021 19:35

@MasterGland

I think a strike would be terrible for the profession. Teachers do not have the support of the public. A strike would be the final nail in the coffin. Even threats to quit are not effective, as the government have been quietly moving to a high turnover, low experience model. They only care about the annual recruitment numbers, not the retention figures. What they want is for fresh grads to teach for a few years, and then leave.
have been quietly moving to a high turnover, low experience model. They only care about the annual recruitment numbers, not the retention figures. What they want is for fresh grads to teach for a few years, and then leave.

Sadly I think this is very very true. Although it will be interesting to see what happens with recruitment figures going forward....post lockdown/fear of recession lots applying to train, although I read that's tailed off somewhat given the labour market is not in dire straits as predicted.

savagebaggagemaster · 02/10/2021 19:38

@Iggly

Other than email our MP’s (which I have done) any other suggestions of things parents could do to express our absolute disgust at the plans?

Stop voting Tory. I’m not sure when people will learn.

People will only stop voting Tory when the media moguls stop telling them to.
Hercisback · 02/10/2021 19:41

What they want is for fresh grads to teach for a few years, and then leave.

Why do they want this though?
To churn out exam factory kids who don't question anything because they don't fully understand the world around them.

cansu · 02/10/2021 19:42

There isn't much I would be prepared to strike over but this tops the list. I am already working harder than I ever have. The other very simple answer to this is that teens and children in general do not want and will not take up extra classes. We offered a week of summer school and had 20 take ups. Most of these were odd days as child care. Parents and children want childcare they do not want extra lessons after school. Even when offering intervention before and after school most say no.

SnugKnights · 02/10/2021 19:44

@noblegiraffe

If you email your MP, Snug and ask that your concern be forwarded to the Secretary of State for Education then you should be able to get a response from the DfE even though Zahawi isn't your MP. I've had a response from Nick Gibb when he was Schools Minister from something I sent to my MP.
Great, thank you.
MasterGland · 02/10/2021 19:45

Ah, but as any biology teacher desperately trying to teach themselves how to do bloody ray diagrams(at midnight) will tell you... they aren't that fussed about specialists either. Most scientists are signed on general science teacher contracts. PE teachers teaching maths etc. If you have an A Level in it... you're good to go.

SnugKnights · 02/10/2021 19:45

@Iggly

Other than email our MP’s (which I have done) any other suggestions of things parents could do to express our absolute disgust at the plans?

Stop voting Tory. I’m not sure when people will learn.

I don’t think people will ever learn that one will they? I can’t see how they can get much worse, so what would it take?
MasterGland · 02/10/2021 19:49

I must say, I obviously don't agree with all this. I think it is horrific.

WhiskersPete · 02/10/2021 19:49

Ah, but as any biology teacher desperately trying to teach themselves how to do bloody ray diagrams(at midnight)

Been there!

MrsR87 · 02/10/2021 20:07

@MasterGland

Ah, but as any biology teacher desperately trying to teach themselves how to do bloody ray diagrams(at midnight) will tell you... they aren't that fussed about specialists either. Most scientists are signed on general science teacher contracts. PE teachers teaching maths etc. If you have an A Level in it... you're good to go.
I have a GCSE in maths…I was teaching year 8 maths last year. It’s irritating when it takes you twice as long to prep for as you have to re-teach it to yourself first…this on top of my own subject planning that takes place at the weekend!