Is a single police officer legally allowed to arrest a woman who is alone?

[impossible]

Does anyone know if a single police officer is allowed to arrest a woman who is alone and put her in a vehicle? Or for that matter is it legal for a single officer to arrest a male and confine him?

I'm thinking about what happened to Sarah Everard and wondering what the rules are. I think it's important that we all know in case something like that that situation happens again. Certainly I would like to be able to tell my dcs their rights.

World wide outrage (and absolutely quite rightly) when poor George Floyd was killed by a cop.

There should be outrage and marches about this, its very telling that there isn't. So sad.

@goawayalcg

And add a charge of resisting arrest? Seriously not a good idea.

Rather such a charge than being murdered. I'm going to be teaching my daughter to scream her head off if an uninformed man alone tries to "arrest" her for any reason.

Me too.

So angry that West Midlands Police have posted this on Facebook tonight.

At the very least you would know if you are doing something that would merit being arrested.

A random person approaching you and trying to arrest you while you are not committing any offence is not a common occurrence at all I would think

It's not like one would be arrested often or at risk to be arrested by a fake officer often?

I live in Brixton, not a million miles away from where Sarah was kidnapped. There is a mugger/crack addict who has worked Coldharbour Lane for at least the last five years, with an apparently genuine warrant card that I assume he’s nicked from somewhere. Plain clothes, says he’s undercover. He has approached both me and DH, separately (threatened to “fit DH up for rape” if he didn’t give him money, suggested he’d arrest me for being drunk and disorderly unless I gave him a blow job). Both times he tried to get us to leave the main road “back to his police car”. Early evening both times - I was coming back from work at about 8pm. We’ve both seen him multiple times, and know to avoid him now. Various friends and neighbours know him too. One of my colleagues lost his wallet to him - he took it to “check his ID” and he ran off with it. He isn’t particularly convincing - he moves to demanding money/sex too quickly to be believable, and is clearly trying to get you to go with him. But no, it isn’t unusual. We’ve both reported him, the actual Met aren’t interested because apparently no crime has been committed.

I was on the train between Woolwich and Denmark Hill about two months ago, and a guy there also claimed to be an undercover cop. Had an obviously fake warrant card, and a non-functioning walkie-talkie that he was talking into. He tried to get a woman to leave the train with him at Blackheath, which is a very quiet station outside of rush hour. She kicked up a fuss, refused to get off, and he legged it at Lewisham. Again, BTS weren’t interested “because he’s gone now”. This was after Sarah Everard. Obvious copycat. The police didn’t give a shit.

@Nomoreusernames1244

I would imagine the best people to get away with murder are in fact police officers. They have access to unimaginable amounts of data. They can legitimately ask questions about anything really

No, they can’t. Police systems are heavily audited, locally and nationally. Most officers don’t have access to everything, they need to request information from the relevant unit and justify why they want it. Those that do have access in those units have to submit to in depth vetting.

Weren’t something like 33 met Officers caught looking at this case after sarah’s murder when they didn’t have a policing purpose?

Yes, and police officers taking selfies with the bodies of Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry, another couple of bad apples.

@SofiaMichelle

There's some extreme naivety on display in this thread.

Being arrested and then requesting a particular police vehicle for your transportation to the station?

Demanding to make a 999 call while under arrest?

Assuming there will be more than one officer when a woman is arrested?

I do understand that a lot of people have no contact with the police but you've only got to catch one of the many fly-on-the-wall TV shows to show none of the above is in the least bit realistic.

The Sarah Everard case is absolutely appalling, and we all have every right to be outraged and demand action to help protect women and girls, but some of this is completely unrealistic as a response to one rogue officer.

I think you've missed the point a bit. Yes, it was one rogue officer but his actions have hugely damaged trust in the police and that's why so many women are on this thread discussing how they'd react now. Their suggestions might seem ridiculous but it's a discussion, that's all.

That said, I live in London and if I ever find myself in that situation with a lone Met officer I think I'd invoke Sarah's name as a reason not to trust what they were saying. I can't imagine I'll be alone in doing that now.

@Maskless

"I hope they lock him up and throw away the key!"

Why do people keep saying this when they know full well that this never happens.

You KNOW what will happen: an inadequate sentence, which he'll serve half of, then be released and attack another woman.

Not necessarily. The starting points are here: www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/sentencing-mandatory-life-sentences-murder-cases

I am not a judge or prosecutor, but I would hazard a guess that there are a lot of the Aggravating factors summarised there in this case, and that quite a long sentence would probably be given. Again- not the judge, not my decision, but I would be surprised at less than 30 years before parole is even considered.
Of course, no length of sentence will give her family back their daughter or sister.

And yeah, the Met definitely do NOT work alone in Lambeth - presumably due to the risk of being stabbed/assaulted. I’ve only ever seen real police going round in twos (or more often vanloads). If a random solo man approaches you round here, they are fake. Uniform or not.

@Tilltheend99

Really shocked at how many women would rather let a single male police officer handcuff them for no reason instead of screaming like hell. Who cares about the charge you might get, which would probably get thrown out anyway as is reasonable given the circumstances. Plus there is a BIG difference between making other people aware of your presence and fighting a police officer.

This comment is so bloody unfair to Sarah, you should be ashamed for victim blaming. Yes, she let him handcuff her but he told her she was being detained under the Covid laws, which at the time, at the height of the pandemic, would've felt entirely plausible.

The chances of you being arrested by one, lone, plainclothes undercover officer are vanishingly slim, so yes if you’re in that situation you probably resist. If it’s a uniformed officer then the control centre will have a live tracker on their screen of where they are (roughly) and so you are much safer.

This isn’t blaming Sarah by the way, I can see why she went along with it - how was she to know he wasn’t an undercover officer? But for all the people asking if they can trust police, yes if they’re in uniform, in a marked car, radioing in that they’ve just arrested you, with their bodycam on - no if they’re alone, in an unmarked car, no uniform, no radio, and no good reason to have suddenly arrested you. But as I say, that’s very unlikely to happen (legitimately) to anyone.

@Moonopoly

I think the Covid laws being so grey also added to this. In normal times she presumably would have known if she was committing an offence and so perhaps would have questioned an arrest for walking down the street. The Covid legislation was so loose that we’d seen people being told they couldn’t use their front gardens by police or walk with a friend for coffee. That grey probably gave him an opportunity he wouldn’t have had under our regular laws.

This. Fucking stupid laws and jumped up little Hitlers exceeding their powers. Those twats in Derbyshire police stopping women for walking with a coffee have contributed.

I think we need to organise mass non-co-operation marches. Women to resist arrest or bring pulled over in the car when alone under any circumstances until there is root and branch reform of the police and full reassurance that this cannot happen again.

You have got to be joking. You do realise that women commit offences too and often need arresting?

@RoseRedRoseBlue

You have got to be joking. You do realise that women commit offences too and often need arresting?

That’s the point though. Make it difficult for them to do their job, like they make it difficult for women to stay safe and get justice.

@RoseRedRoseBlue

You have got to be joking. You do realise that women commit offences too and often need arresting?

How often do they need arresting by some random guy in plainclothes, and putting in the back of a rental car? When they have been walking down the street minding their own business?

Never, I would have said.

And anyone saying “ooh, a criminal might escape justice if plainclothes officers can’t arrest people by themselves” - since when has that been something the police care about?

The Met in Lambeth don’t attend or investigate burglaries, they don’t investigate car crime, they don’t investigate mugging unless there has also been an assault. That is their stated, written policy. You get a crime reference number and a letter explaining they don’t investigate those kinds of crimes any more, and that is that. I won’t even start on rape stats.

So don’t claim they couldn’t possibly let a female criminal escape and are duty bound to wrestle her into an unmarked car.

I’ve just remembered the police officer sending selfies of the crime scene when he was guarding it after Sarah was murdered.

Another bad apple.

but this man would have always found some way or means to commit a crime of this nature. This was just the most convenient and plausible format.

This is such a crap argument. If you reduce the opportunities for a person to commit crime and increase the likelihood of them getting caught when they do you reduce the overall amount of crime committed. It really isn't rocket science. Nobody knows if he would have been brazen enough to simply grab a screaming woman from the street, or whether the bystanders would have intervened if they knew it wasn't a genuine arrest. The Met robbed Sarah Everard of those chances to survive when they failed to remove his warrant card and handcuffs. The man is wholly responsible for his crime. And the Met are responsible for failing to protect the public from one of their own.

We will probably never totally stop violence against women. But we should be doing a fuck of a lot more to reduce it.

I have done some Googling.
For those concerned about making a scene/noise- apparently, resisting arrest is not illegal in the UK unless you commit an assault. It is illegal to obstruct someone else being arrested however.

@Pumperthepumper

I’ve just remembered the police officer sending selfies of the crime scene when he was guarding it after Sarah was murdered.

Another bad apple.

That was after the murders of Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry in north London.

A probationary police officer faced disciplinary action (and I hope the swiftest failure of the probationary period in police history) for circulating a meme, based on an old police road safety campaign, edited to change it to an assault by a police officer on a lone woman.

No, I already talked about Nicole and Bibaa upthread. It was this:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/15/sarah-everard-met-officer-removed-from-duties-for-sending-offensive-message

He would not have thought twice. George Floyd was murdered without the police officers thinking twice. And murdered by virtue of the murderers being policemen and the power that carries with it.

Had bystanders stepped in, on equal power as humans and not police officers vs civilians George Floyd would be alive.

As for the real life example “you’ll know if you’ve committed a crime and scream blue murder if you haven’t”… well isn’t Sarah a real life example of where this area is grey and muddy and a man in a position of power used to this kind of exchange would not have been flustered where as she would have. Particularly in Covid times where grounds for arrest are wooly.

All it would have taken is “quiet down or ill do you for resisting arrest”. Which is what several posters have said here too effectively.

Also @SquirmOfEels I can’t find out what happened to him. Was he dismissed from the police? Or is he still a serving officer?

[quote Pumperthepumper]No, I already talked about Nicole and Bibaa upthread. It was this:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/mar/15/sarah-everard-met-officer-removed-from-duties-for-sending-offensive-message[/quote]
Yes, and that article is about the 'stop single girl' police guide from abduction to murder meme shared in whatapp, not a selfie.

It was reported in the press, but it was rapidly taken down in an absolute storm of criticism.

He was removed from post, but I can't find anything about the results of the investigation and disciplinary case.

It is illegal to obstruct someone else being arrested however.

And also this. So he knew no one could/would step in. All that on his side regardless of whether he was on duty or not. Women have zero chance against predatory male police officers and what a great field to get in because the MET give zero shits.

Ah I see, it’s because I said selfie. Still, three bad apples in a very short space of time.

Wonder if they’re all still serving?