To think this is a big problem with the universal credit system

[gingercatsparky]

After a talk with my friend I feel the universal credit system discourages people from working harder. My friend has recently split from her DH, she works 15 hours a week and has a dd in school. She was discussing what to do financially and said that her friend told her that if she works only one more hour a week she gets universal credit. So it's not worth her upping her hours even more although she would be perfectly capable of working full time. Surely, that is the wrong way round? More money for working part-time. She continues working few hours and doing coffees etc on her days off where others are forced to work full time?

I’m not an expert but I think UC has taper instead of stops suddenly.
So think over the threshold, she would keep 37p of every extra £1 she earns because her UC would be reduced by 63p for every extra £1 she earns over the threshold.

So it’s never “more money to work part time”. She’d still be better off if she worked more, just not on a £1 for £1 basis.

Sadly it’s true, I know many people that are doing this because it works out better than working more hours. I’m on tax credits and as both DP and me worK we only get £20 a week. It helps but not much...we still struggle... at least they are working though....I have an issue with people who con the system for disability or just outright refuse to work because they get more not working. Me and DP earn too much for benefits but not enough to rent a 3 bedroom house, which is what is needed with dd9 and ds13... we live with my mum currently, which the kids love... we have a roof over our head and my kids are having the childhood I’d want them to have... it works for us. Trying to save but something always comes up.

The problem is shit wages not universal credit.

Companies need to pay higher wages then this wouldn’t happen.

She’s making a rational decision based on her circumstances. Walk a mile and all that.

YABVU to judge people without understanding the benefit system and their individual circumstances.
Universal credit was designed to ensure that people are better off in work than out of work, and that they're better off if they work more hours.
I've done a lot of benefit calculations and as a general rule people on UC will always be better off the more they work (with a few rare exceptions).
Legacy benefits are different and the tax credit system especially could create situations where people would be worse off working more, still not that common though.

I’d say don’t judge her

Timeisavirtue
"con the system for disability", where did you get that idea? Sounds like something from the comments section of Daily Mail online If you knew anything at all about disability benefits you'd know how hard it is for people who have severe disabilities to get them. If I could be arsed I'd dig out stats for you showing people who are wrongly refused disability benefits (clue: it's a huge number) v people who claim fraudulently (clue: it's minuscule).

I work with people on Universal credits.

I think it's best not to judge UC or anyone on UC at all really. Some people struggle enormously more than you could ever imagine.

So if they have to do things that give them slightly more money (because in the case your talking about it would be slightly) to put food on the table or keep the children clothed and warm then can you blame them?

UC isn't a walk in the park. Some of the hardships I've seen are heart breaking.

@AnotherEmma

Timeisavirtue "con the system for disability", where did you get that idea? Sounds like something from the comments section of Daily Mail online If you knew anything at all about disability benefits you'd know how hard it is for people who have severe disabilities to get them. If I could be arsed I'd dig out stats for you showing people who are wrongly refused disability benefits (clue: it's a huge number) v people who claim fraudulently (clue: it's minuscule).

I know a lot thanks, DS has DLA so I’m quite clued up, I never said many people do it, I just said I can’t stand people that do do it.

If she worked full time she'd have the cost of wraparound care for her DD, and huge childcare bills in the school holidays. So maybe she can't afford to work more than 16 hours. Or can't find a job which allows her to work around school hours. As if single mothers don't already have it hard enough without others judging them for not working harder FFS

@bangonthedoorgroovychick

I work with people on Universal credits.

I think it's best not to judge UC or anyone on UC at all really. Some people struggle enormously more than you could ever imagine.

So if they have to do things that give them slightly more money (because in the case your talking about it would be slightly) to put food on the table or keep the children clothed and warm then can you blame them?

UC isn't a walk in the park. Some of the hardships I've seen are heart breaking.

Yes I get that and I feel for those people and it's absolutely right for people in that situation. However her DH earns around £50k, is likely to have her dd 50% of the time and she lives in a 4 bed detached house mortgage free. She is not in this situation. The friend she talks about goes on ski holidays. I don't begrudge it to people genuinely struggling who without it would be in dire straights but sorry she will go down in my estimation if she claims UC so she can continue to work 2 days a week. This is not right.

@fluffythedragonslayer

If she worked full time she'd have the cost of wraparound care for her DD, and huge childcare bills in the school holidays. So maybe she can't afford to work more than 16 hours. Or can't find a job which allows her to work around school hours. As if single mothers don't already have it hard enough without others judging them for not working harder FFS

No not the case. Her DH has her dd one the days she works and is likely to have her 50/50. He's extremely hands on. Her parents help her out a huge amount too. Her dd is in school so breakfast club and after school club would be pretty cheap. The one at my dcs school is free am and £8 pm.

@gingercatsparky but seriously your on here judging (and you aren't just judging her in your OP, you are judging the system in which she's using)
when really and most likely there will be things/stresses and feelings going on behind the scenes you don't know about.

Like I said, and I say this kindly and in no way wish to offend you or cause a bun fight but in cases like this it's honestly best to mind your own business and not to pry into other peoples purses.

I've seen many women and men who you would never believe are on UC, their life may appear rosy on the outside but it's not always the case.

Being better off working than on Universal credit depends on what other benefits you get (that make up your UC)
If you don't have children or your children are adults, and you are in receipt of ESA, you are far better off on UC.

But OP, she thinks she will be worse off if she increases her hours because of what that other friend has told her. She doesn’t know she would be better off. So you can’t really judge her or blame her for staying on UC as she is afraid to lose what she has. She recently split from her DH and so it’s all new to her and she probably feels overwhelmed right now.

Best thing you can do is steer her in the direction of accurate financial advice. She has choices too. It’s not a given that FT work right away is the best course of action. If she’s been a SAHM out of workplace, it might be best for her work PT and get new/updated qualifications PT for a few years before going to work FT. Her DD may have special needs you are not aware of, making it essential she not work outside school hours. So really, she’s going through an upheaval and you shouldn’t begrudge her the time and space of a safety net like UC.

I thought with universal credit you were forced to look for more hours/ another job if you were below a certain income, so people couldn’t get away with working the minimum? If she’s not claiming fraudulently it’s between her and DWP, nothing to do with anyone else. I agree that the system doesn’t work very well and people can be less well off working more when you consider the effect of free nhs treatment, free school trips and holiday schemes, free school meals, less expenses for commuting/ childcare etc. It’s the fault of the system not the individual though

I'm on UC. You're mostly better off the more you work, but not by much. I work 25 hours a week currently (three kids under 7). I had the option recently that instead of finishing work at 3pm, I could work until 6pm every day, so an extra 3 hours a day, which is 15 a week, and would bring me up to 40 hours (full time).

Say I earn £10 an hour. I get to keep 37p of every pound, so I actually earn £3.70 an hour. So increasing my hours by 15 a week brings me an extra £55 a week. Ok great.

But my childminder charges £6 per child per hour, so those same 15 hours cost me £270 in childcare for a week. I get 80% of my childcare costs back, so they'll give me £229.50 back, and I have to cover the £40.50 difference. So now working 15 hours extra a week means I earn £55, but am covering £40.50 in childcare. So now working 15 hours a week only gives me £14.50 extra a week in my pay check - less after tax etc. Would you work for under £1 extra an hour, if it means not getting evenings with your kids? Not many would.

selflove has explained it beautifully.

Luckily for her, it’s none of your business what she does.

You're almost always better off working on UC. I was by loads, although had minimal childcare costs.
Depending on the age of her DD they'll make her look for more hours anyway.

Other than that, it's none of your business.

Except 'her dh' who earns around 50k is about to not be her DH as they're splitting and there are probably parts of the how her situation that you don't know about. Maybe some parts that she may not even yet be certain about - some people change a lot during a split, circumstances can change very quickly in that sort of situation.

Finding out your options is hardly a bad idea at a time like this - there is nothing in your OP that says she's going to do it, just that another friend pointed this out as a possibility.

All the systems have their problems, selflove pointed out some issues quite clearly, it's difficult balancing not wanting to people to starve with not wanting people to get into a rut of reliance, but two friends discussing a possible option during what is often a difficult time does not equal that UC makes people better off not working in general. Of all the many many problems UC has, I don't think that's the big one most are concerned with dealing with.

"her DH earns around £50k, is likely to have her dd 50% of the time and she lives in a 4 bed detached house mortgage free."

Her DH's earnings are irrelevant if they're about to split; it's his money not hers, and if he has their DD half the time he won't pay child maintenance either.

The house may need to be sold and the profits divided up in the financial settlement. But if she does stay in the house, she won't get the housing element of UC.

Divorce leaves people worse off, surely that's obvious? They will be running two households instead of one.

@selflove

I'm on UC. You're mostly better off the more you work, but not by much. I work 25 hours a week currently (three kids under 7). I had the option recently that instead of finishing work at 3pm, I could work until 6pm every day, so an extra 3 hours a day, which is 15 a week, and would bring me up to 40 hours (full time).

Say I earn £10 an hour. I get to keep 37p of every pound, so I actually earn £3.70 an hour. So increasing my hours by 15 a week brings me an extra £55 a week. Ok great.

But my childminder charges £6 per child per hour, so those same 15 hours cost me £270 in childcare for a week. I get 80% of my childcare costs back, so they'll give me £229.50 back, and I have to cover the £40.50 difference. So now working 15 hours extra a week means I earn £55, but am covering £40.50 in childcare. So now working 15 hours a week only gives me £14.50 extra a week in my pay check - less after tax etc. Would you work for under £1 extra an hour, if it means not getting evenings with your kids? Not many would.

I think this makes the op's point, doesn't it?

@Leibham

Luckily for her, it’s none of your business what she does.

The op wasn't posting about her friend but about how UC works. It's all of our business how our taxation is spent. Its one of the main things we vote in elections about.

selflove
Thanks that makes it very clear. It's a real flaw in the system then isn't it. I can totally understand why people wouldn't work FT in that situation. Something needs to change so that's not the case.

It is my business how taxation is used. If everyone always just minded their own business then nothing would ever change.

It was just her attitude of well I can keep my lifestyle and only work 15 hours a week , I will just claim UC. Her parents are helping her out financially and her DH is going to pay half the bills etc- at the moment. He also pays her £00 a month on top of her wages for spending money. But obviously that is up to them. It was more her attitude of great I can carry on as I am whilst claiming money so I dont work. I do begrudge people who have this attitude of taking money for nothing. She's a very good friend as is very open about her finances to me. Her dd doesn't have special needs and I don't think there is anything else she is hiding. Her DH is likely in a huge amount of debt too, I have said perhaps she should work more hours for the security as she can't count on her DH paying his half if he declares bankruptcy. Her attitude was then, well my parents are helping out. I just don't get people who would rather take from others to live a certain lifestyle than work themselves for it.

I’m sorry, you sound a bit jealous to me.