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Original poster

To think this is a big problem with the universal credit system

110 replies

gingercatsparky · 26/09/2021 22:14

After a talk with my friend I feel the universal credit system discourages people from working harder. My friend has recently split from her DH, she works 15 hours a week and has a dd in school. She was discussing what to do financially and said that her friend told her that if she works only one more hour a week she gets universal credit. So it's not worth her upping her hours even more although she would be perfectly capable of working full time. Surely, that is the wrong way round? More money for working part-time. She continues working few hours and doing coffees etc on her days off where others are forced to work full time?

OP posts:
lollipoprainbow · 27/09/2021 07:22

@Gilead maybe but I'm not surprised. I'm a single mum to a daughter with additional needs working virtually full time and getting peanuts in tax credits and paying extortionate rent monthly. It's all wrong.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 27/09/2021 07:24

@Iggly

The problem is shit wages not universal credit.

Companies need to pay higher wages then this wouldn’t happen.

She’s making a rational decision based on her circumstances. Walk a mile and all that.

It’s not the fault of companies.

Do you really think if wages were higher suddenly everyone working the 16 hours would go full time?

Iggly · 27/09/2021 07:28

Do you really think if wages were higher suddenly everyone working the 16 hours would go full time

They wouldn’t need to rely on universal credit…. That’s the point I’m making.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Benefits
inmyslippers · 27/09/2021 07:36

I agree to a degree. It's hard to get out the uc cycle. Work full time for same as part time, which isn't much. It's hard to make the leap to higher earnings

AnotherEmma · 27/09/2021 07:40

[quote lollipoprainbow]@Gilead maybe but I'm not surprised. I'm a single mum to a daughter with additional needs working virtually full time and getting peanuts in tax credits and paying extortionate rent monthly. It's all wrong. [/quote]
Are you claiming all the benefits you're entitled to?
DLA for your daughter? If you don't get Housing Benefit, you'd probably be better off switching from tax credits to UC, as you'd get the housing element and Carers element in addition to the standard, child and disabled child elements. Try an online calculator (Entitledto or Turn2us) or contact citizens advice.

Original poster
gingercatsparky · 27/09/2021 07:41

[quote lollipoprainbow]@Gilead maybe but I'm not surprised. I'm a single mum to a daughter with additional needs working virtually full time and getting peanuts in tax credits and paying extortionate rent monthly. It's all wrong. [/quote]
I can assure you I am not. I wouldn't want to rely on someone else for my money and wouldn't want to claim benefits unnecessarily. It's not in my ethos to get money from others when I can earn it myself.

I just don't get people who have this attitude and are happy to freeload off other people. They have a higher income than us but it's similar when they were together, we choose to use our money to save, pensions, holidays and generally living costs. They chose to get expensive cars, have no savings, pensions, run up loads of debts so it goes on CC as they clearly couldn't maintain their lifestyle. Ok spend you money how you like, fine. But then when the shit hits the fan, carry on working minimal hours so you can claim UC or/and claim bankruptcy and get money off your DPs. What happened to working for what you want?

OP posts:
Original poster
gingercatsparky · 27/09/2021 07:42

Sorry tagged wrong person. Meant to tag the person who said I was jealous.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 27/09/2021 07:45

You're not much of a friend are you Confused Very judgy. It sounds as if they've made financially irresponsible choices - and they will certainly suffer for them; they're ending their marriage, they have debts, their options will be limited and they will have stress about finances. Yes it's exasperating when it seems self-inflicted, but can you also have some compassion for the fact that they have got themselves in this situation and are unlikely to improve matters without changing their attitude? It is possible to have compassion for someone without agreeing with their choices.

anniegun · 27/09/2021 07:46

UC is designed to be complicated and difficult because it plays into the Tories narrative that people receiving benefits are scrounges and don't deserve a fair and workable system. Theresa Coffey (who is charge of the thing) claimed the planned cut of £20 per week was "about 2 hours work per week" Apart from the fact that many UC claimants cant work it is just not true (she was either lying or ignorant).. People will only keep around a third of any extra wages because of the taper system. And of course any costs of extra work (childcare or travel for another shift) have to come off as well.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 27/09/2021 07:49

I think the benefit system is unfair for some but unfair for others. I have a friend, 4 children, husband self employed, SAHM, doesn’t work gets £1000 per month. She totally could work especially now the children are teenagers and she doesn’t do school pick ups. She doesn’t because she doesn’t need to because of the tax credits. It irks me somewhat as it takes me about two weeks to earn what she gets for free. I know I shouldn’t feel like that but then she has complained about me being unavailable for outgoings etc… Because I am working.

AnotherEmma · 27/09/2021 07:53

As I said, tax credits can be more generous than UC. That's why the DWP is gradually switching everyone over.

You couldn't claim UC without working unless you had a good reason (sickness/disability, caring responsibilities, young child/ren).

bangonthedoorgroovychick · 27/09/2021 07:53

She can't be a 'very good friend' if you keep slagging her off online though right?
Do you think she would stay your friend if she saw this?
I mean maybe she will see it, it's a public forum after all and you've been very specific about her business, finances, life etc.

Focus on your own problems OP. I'm sure you wouldn't want people judging you or slagging you off if you were in the middle of a divorce and big changes.

UC isn't just given Willy nilly, it's made up of elements which are then deducted due to work and other income. By what you're saying on here she won't get much UC at all.

timesachangin · 27/09/2021 08:01

Once your child is 5 universal credit claimants need to look for at least 35 hours work a week. It's a myth that you can just choose to only work 16 hours. Your friend will have to attend monthly meetings with very work coach and evidence what she's doing to improve her hours/income.

timesachangin · 27/09/2021 08:01

Once your child is 5 universal credit claimants need to look for at least 35 hours work a week. It's a myth that you can just choose to only work 16 hours. Your friend will have to attend monthly meetings with very work coach and evidence what she's doing to improve her hours/income.

Original poster
gingercatsparky · 27/09/2021 08:05

@AnotherEmma

As I said, tax credits can be more generous than UC. That's why the DWP is gradually switching everyone over.

You couldn't claim UC without working unless you had a good reason (sickness/disability, caring responsibilities, young child/ren).

Exactly. It is people like this where I think the system is not set up correctly. This should not be the case.

I do have compassion. I feel for her splitting up with DH and have been supportive. I also feel for her as it seems she was oblivious to the volume of debts her DH was getting into. Their money was quite separate. But she also played her part in it too and from what she's told me was pretty niave.

I have told her I would be concerned about how much is in her name but she doesn't seem too bothered about looking into this. This is what I find hard to comprehend. She's happy just to fall back on UC and her DPs help financially rather than getting herself out the mess. It was more her attitude of oh I will claim UC and my parents can help, then yes, I better up my hours, look into the debt and stand on my own two feet. She's been reliant on DH and her DP all her life.

OP posts:
AnotherEmma · 27/09/2021 09:01

@timesachangin

Once your child is 5 universal credit claimants need to look for at least 35 hours work a week. It's a myth that you can just choose to only work 16 hours. Your friend will have to attend monthly meetings with very work coach and evidence what she's doing to improve her hours/income.
Actually that's not true. The main carer of a child aged 5-13 would be expected to work 25 hours, not 35, and the work coach is supposed to take their caring responsibilities into account (ie doing school run). www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Claimant-commitment-Universal-Credit

Parents are also expected to work 16 hours a week once their youngest child turns 3, there is no exemption until age 5 as there was with income support (a legacy benefit).

AnotherEmma · 27/09/2021 09:04

"She's been reliant on DH and her DP all her life."

In that case she'll probably struggle if and when she is forced to manage more independently Sad
You could suggest that she contacts Citizens Advice to discuss her options. It would probably be better coming from them and not you.

Wriggleon · 27/09/2021 09:14

I think the system doesn't help in the long term as working part time is difficult for job progression however that really only applies if the job is a more career type one. At one point I was working a professional job for about a £1 an hour ( for hours over a certain amount, this was in the tax credit days) however I was progressing in my career and paying into my pension. If my job was a minimum wage type, I can not truthfully say I would have made the same choice to work full time.

timesachangin · 27/09/2021 09:15

@AnotherEmma apologies and that you for correcting. I was going off what I was told when I applied but it must have changed. Or, a quite possibly, I was told wrong. You seem to get a different answer depending on who you speak to!

timesachangin · 27/09/2021 09:18

@gingercatsparky I think best just let her get on with it. It the midst of a breakup (particularly where you don't feel financially secure) it's hard to know what to do. People panic and feel scared and my guess would be that her priority is getting her children and herself through it all right now. Her outlook may be different further down the line.

selflove · 27/09/2021 09:29

@timesachangin

Once your child is 5 universal credit claimants need to look for at least 35 hours work a week. It's a myth that you can just choose to only work 16 hours. Your friend will have to attend monthly meetings with very work coach and evidence what she's doing to improve her hours/income.
Actually, you're wrong about the 35 hours too.

If you earn above minimum wage you could be lifted above your earnings threshold but work less than 35 hours - the threshold is measured in terms of earnings not hours.

So you need to earn the equivalent of 35 x £8.91 a week (£311). I can earn that by working 25 hours. So that meets the threshold, even though I don't work full time.

Mumoblue · 27/09/2021 09:36

Y’know. When I was working full time I never stressed myself about what people on benefits were doing, because I understand that people taking advantage of the system are in the minority and Jeff Bezos wipes his arse with more money than people on benefits live on.

I’d suggest a healthy dose of minding your own business. Life is not easier on UC. If she’s messing about, she’ll find that out really quickly.

timesachangin · 27/09/2021 09:49

@Mumoblue

Y’know. When I was working full time I never stressed myself about what people on benefits were doing, because I understand that people taking advantage of the system are in the minority and Jeff Bezos wipes his arse with more money than people on benefits live on.

I’d suggest a healthy dose of minding your own business. Life is not easier on UC. If she’s messing about, she’ll find that out really quickly.

This
users689033 · 27/09/2021 09:54

@AnotherEmma

Timeisavirtue "con the system for disability", where did you get that idea? Sounds like something from the comments section of Daily Mail online Hmm If you knew anything at all about disability benefits you'd know how hard it is for people who have severe disabilities to get them. If I could be arsed I'd dig out stats for you showing people who are wrongly refused disability benefits (clue: it's a huge number) v people who claim fraudulently (clue: it's minuscule).
This.
Etonmessisyum · 27/09/2021 10:38

The system does and has people like her who take what they can get and do as little as possible. But the people it does help, the majority don’t do that. I work as many hours as I can, I’m a nurse so I work shifts. I’m a single parent to 3 and I have a son with Sen which means he isn’t suitable for after school club etc. His dad also works shifts. So I work on his dads days off so I can work and earn some money.

If things changed where I had to work full time, what would I do with my kids. I’d need to leave nursing - work school hours? I’m not even sure. I’m hoping I can work more hours when my son is older but I don’t know how that’ll work out with school etc. You can’t plan ahead. I’m hoping to do some extra training to be a school nurse or health visitor once he’s at high school.

However for now, I’m keeping my head above water, just. We don’t go anywhere or have any luxuries as such. This woman might be getting a good deal now but she’ll need to work more when her kids are older and then maintenance is going to stop. It’s good her ex is helping her and it makes a change from the ones who don’t.