Can someone talk to me about freezing embryos?

[Dexy007]

Have deliberately avoided putting this in conception / fertility as my husband and I do not (as far as we know) have fertility issues - we have never tried to get pregnant. But nor are we ready to be parents.

Embryo freezing is an option we are starting to think about because of our ages (early 30s). I know we do not have limitless time on our side.

Assuming we have good egg and sperm quality (TBC, but looking into how to go about getting the relevant tests), would anyone be willing to give me a dummy's guide to freezing embryos? I have looked at countless clinic's webpages but they are not generally very helpful because they all want you to call up and discuss bespoke tailored solutions. I have also tried searching mumsnet by am seeing lots of jargon and acronyms like 12WW and blastocysts etc and would be grateful to anyone who can explain the process in plain English.

What does it cost?

Do you need to have IVF, or not necessarily? (I have seen conflicting information about this as most clinics are starting from the assumption you are struggling to get pregnant, not wanting to keep options option for later down the line).

Thanks in advance

Hi Dexy

You’d need to have IVF in order to create embryos to freeze. This usually costs a few thousand pounds per cycle in the UK. Also, you’d probably be charged annual embryo storage fees of £250+.

If/when you have an embryo transferred to your uterus, you might be charged a separate fee, depending on the package offered by your clinic.

Blastocysts are five or six-day embryos. Only 40-50% of three-day embryos reach the blastocyst stage, so many clinics prefer to let embryos develop for five to six days in the lab before transferring or freezing them.

2WW stands for the two week wait between an attempt to conceive (whether it’s through sex or through fertility treatment) and being able to take a pregnancy test. If you have IVF, the 2WW can be actually be closer to ten days.

Many private fertility clinics offer couples a “fertility MOT” including an ultrasound scan of your ovaries and uterus, plus a blood test. This can give you an estimate of your ovarian reserve, (but not your egg quality). Your partner would be offered a semen analysis to check his sperm count.

I hope this helps for starters.

I agree with above you'd need ivf I'm order to create embryos. To help with costs you could ask your gp if he will do bloods ect then transfer these to your choice of clinic. Your dh will them need a sperms analysis. If everything is OK there you would Then start the injections with scans to check everything is going OK. Then you would have your egg collection and your partner will need to do his sperm sample and you will get a call in the next few days to tell you how many have been fertilised and grade them which is when the freezing will take place. My ivf cost around 6k altogether but that was including transfer too. The embryo freezing cost me 500 for 3 years I think! It all depends on the clinic and of they do packages as I know some do. Hope this helps.

You have to do IVF to freeze embryos.

I froze mine a few years ago and used one to conceive last year.

My frozen embryo round with medication and all testing done + scans was £4,000

My frozen embryo transfer with meds £2,700ish.

£300 yearly for embryo storage.

The rough list of what we had to do:

Initial consultation £250
Then you'll be scanned to see where you are in your cycle.
You'll go through medial history for the both of you.
You will have many many scans to see when the best time is to collect eggs to make sure they're mature. You'll probably have to inject everyday leading up to this to give you the best chance for good number of eggs.

You'll then have an egg collection and your partner a semen collection. Or as my husband did to put it lightly spunk in a cup.

Then they will fertilise your eggs. They sometimes use the ISCI way if the eggs / sperm is a poorer quality

And which ever ones make it to freeze, they will freeze.

Remember, whether healthy or not, it doesn't always work out first time. For me it did I was very lucky.

When you're ready to transfer an embryo, it's a similar process minus the egg collection. Then you may be on suppositories or medication after the transfer.

The medication side of things everybody is different. That's a v v v basic rundown of an IVF frozen round

Hi OP, I just wanted to say have a think about this.

Blastocysts have a higher success rate than freezing eggs separately, but a pretty low percentage will freeze and thaw and implant successfully.
I was taken through it three years ago and it was 5% pregnancy from frozen eggs, 25% from frozen blastocysts.
Obviously things may have improved since then.

As others have said you will need to go through the IVF process to do this.

You’ll have the initial tests (blood tests, scans, partners sperm sample), then a consultation with the doctor and a nurse where they’ll go through the type of medication protocol to put you on and then usually you’ll start injecting when your period arrives. It depends what medication protocol you’re on but usually you’ll only have to take injections for about 10 or 11 days and then have the egg collection a couple
of days after that. So it doesn’t take very long really.

I think you’re very smart to do this. If you do run into fertility problems you will be very glad you have these embryos from when you were younger.

You are actually likely to need several cycles of IVF to have a batch of blastocysts fo freeze. If the current stats are that 25% of frozen blastocysts result in pregnancy, you’ll need at least 4x more than you want in storage. You might get 4 blasts in one cycle of IVF, could be more or less depending on egg and sperm quality, so you will need multiple cycles if you want more chance of it working/multiple children. I’ve only ever had one good quality blastocyst in each cycle of IVF so never had any leftover to freeze.

Some clinics have price lists online, talk through it with them and then you’ll be able to compare to other clinics.

I personally don’t think it’s a great idea. What if it doesn’t work? You’ll be several years older and starting from square one.

Another thing to be mindful of is that being a fertile couple who is able to conceive naturally doesn't necessarily mean you'll respond well to IVF, as I've found out myself.

For natural conception you need one good egg, selected by your body, to be fertilised by one sperm. Whereas as previous posters say, to stand a good chance with embryo freezing via IVF you really need to grow a number of blastocysts to day five / six.

I'd suggest you get your AMH level tested as well as your antral follicle count so you have an idea as to how you might respond to IVF.

There is some recent research that having three chromosomally normal embryos (so those that are biopsied on day five / six, then frozen and screened for chromosomal abnormalities) that are transferred cumulatively gives a 93% chance of having a baby. At your age, about 60% of your embryos are likely to be normal. So for every baby you want, you would probably be wanting five or six untested frozen blastocysts. To get ten frozen blastocysts could take a number of retrievals, depending on your antral follicle count and how you respond to the stimulation meds.

Lastly, female fertility actually has a slow decline that accelerates from about age 38. So if it's a case of doing IVF now or trying naturally at 35 then I'd suggest the latter is probably preferable on balance.

Thank you this is really helpful. We know it doesn't have a great success rate but I think I could get on with life and make peace with myself if we'd taken steps rather than just stick fingers in ears!!

Does anyone know a rough timeframe? Wouldn't be NHS.

If you select a private clinic imminently then you could be doing your first retrieval in two to three months, depending on your cycles.

Another thing to bear in mind is that you’d only be able to keep the frozen embryos in storage or use them in treatment if both of you still consented. So, if one of you changed your mind, the embryos couldn’t be used and may have to be discarded.

I’ve heard of three cases in which a couple froze embryos, then the relationship ended. One partner then insisted that their frozen embryos be destroyed against their ex-partner’s wishes.

Also, anyone could simply change their mind about wanting children. I don’t know if this situation happens very often (hopefully not), but it’s worth considering before starting treatment.

Thanks Cattenberg I do appreciate that risk but I would prefer the embryo route as I would like the certainty of knowing there are (say) four viable embryos and hence pregnancy could be an option later as opposed to having eggs but no idea if they'll take! Equally if we have no or very few viable embryos I'd like to know that now too, so I have a few years to come to terms with that and decide - if we want to be parents in 5 years - what that will look like, e.g. adoption.

From this side of the fence I'm pretty relaxed about it all. I would very happily adopt or use a donor egg (not sure how husband feels about donor sperm? We should discuss). But I know the stress of conceiving can change people. I am hoping that won't be us as we don't want children in the foreseeable future. (Money, housing situation, jobs etc)

OP, I love your idea! I wish I was this mature when I was your age - would have saved myself a lot of pain. Watch this video is really helpful. An embryologist explains everything.

Thanks 👍 I know this path would not be right for everyone so I appreciate the encouragement. As the prospect of this starts to become less nebulous I have been doubting myself a bit: if we wanted a baby why don't we know by now!? But it feels really good to be taking proactive steps. If anyone else has any guidance (particularly about freezing embryos electively - if I can put it that way) I'd be grateful to hear from you.

What do you mean electively? You'll freeze all that you get that are good enough to freeze, you won't get to choose.

I think your chances of conceiving naturally are probably higher than your chances with a frosty. The impact on your body will be less and I think fresh embryo would be preferable.

There's an 82% chance of conceiving in a year for women aged 35-39 and a 90% chance of conceiving within two years.

Please make sure you're looking at the latest data regarding fertility and not just falling for the old myth that 'fertility falls off a cliff at 35'.

Maybe you are taking into account the latest data, but going down the IVF route now seems expensive and painful, especially when the odds don't even get you to 82%.

@SoftplayTaintedLove I understand that I mean that in a more common scenario if you got any viable embryos (noting that that isn't guaranteed) one would be implanted - maybe two - and any spares would be frozen. I'm talking about choosing to freeze them all upfront.

I'm sorry, but this does sound moderately insane to me. There is a reason people don't do IVF "electively" to create embryos for later, and it's because it's a huge amount of money, time, stress, invasive medical procedures and risk for a low chance of success, not when they haven't even tried just fucking.

It would make a lot more sense to put your efforts into sorting whatever the current practical disadvantages are so you can try in a year or two the old-fashioned way.

5zeds I don't have any reason to doubt we could conceive naturally (we have never tried) but we don't know if we want kids. If we later decide we do we will try but will take some comfort in knowing there is a fallback option in the embryos. Equally maybe we will be told we have low quality eggs and sperm and that it would be a waste of time for us in which case we won't spend the next five years naively assuming we can wait and see and try later.

If we are infertile if rather know now while it won't hurt

Thanks Edge I try and keep a rational view on this but it's good to be reminded. That said, I haven't seen anything so optimistic as the figures you cite. Would you mind pointing me in the direction (if you have the source relatively to hand?)

I do have a family history of early menopause though, so don't think my odds would be as good as normal anyway

The part you don't know is that getting to embryos that implant via IVF is still a lower chance than having sex and getting pregnant, in a couple with no fertility issues. So you could do IVF and get one good viable blastocyst or 3 day embryo from a whole cycle and that one might, through bad luck, be chromosomally not right. This would not necessarily mean you have low fertility- rather it might mean that your body didn't get quite the right mix of drugs that cycle to stimulate egg growth. One follicle can just grow bigger than the others and be ready to ovulate, /"harvest" while the 12 other eggs growing on you ovaries aren't quite mature enough. That's just one of the many variables that can affect ivf outcomes.

Or you could invest the 7k now and use the, I don't know, extra 3k to help you through the first years of your child's life if you try to have. baby in 5 years rather than 10.

Sex for 6 months is by far the easiest way. By FAR.

Hi Buffy I understand but these issues have a longer timeline than that. Stuck with a flat we can't sell because of Grenfell which is preventing us putting down roots here. And no permanent residency yet. Not a situation I'd want to bring a baby into. Also even if there were no practical barriers as I've mentioned a few times I don't even know if I want kids and I'm just not willing to (try and) have one now just because a clock is ticking. It seems irresponsible to me.

Just to balance out some of the negativity…

I had IVF due to DH having a special condition

One round collected 20 eggs, which created 8 embryos. 1 was transferred fresh and gave me DS, and the leftovers have given me 2 more pregnancies

So you don’t have to assume you’ll need lots of rounds to collect enough for a family

I know several people who had their family from one go…

The weird thing is that my sons could have been twins, the youngest could have been the oldest, the oldest could have been the youngest - it was just down to the choice of a man in the lab that they were born in the order they were. It blows my mind slightly ever time I think about it..!

And sorry not trying to be mean or patronising but just lots of us have gone down this road and it promotes stress, puts strain on your body, and so on. The idea of working super hard now, saving, investing, lowering your outgoings then deciding in a few years seems so much more sensible.

Early menopause is a worry but, as you say, you don't know about your egg quality now. AMH tests etc would be helpful but beyond that really the best diagnosis of fertility is shagging.

Thanks @SoftplayTaintedLove that again is something I 'knew' but needed reminding of