Can someone talk to me about freezing embryos?

[Dexy007]

Have deliberately avoided putting this in conception / fertility as my husband and I do not (as far as we know) have fertility issues - we have never tried to get pregnant. But nor are we ready to be parents.

Embryo freezing is an option we are starting to think about because of our ages (early 30s). I know we do not have limitless time on our side.

Assuming we have good egg and sperm quality (TBC, but looking into how to go about getting the relevant tests), would anyone be willing to give me a dummy's guide to freezing embryos? I have looked at countless clinic's webpages but they are not generally very helpful because they all want you to call up and discuss bespoke tailored solutions. I have also tried searching mumsnet by am seeing lots of jargon and acronyms like 12WW and blastocysts etc and would be grateful to anyone who can explain the process in plain English.

What does it cost?

Do you need to have IVF, or not necessarily? (I have seen conflicting information about this as most clinics are starting from the assumption you are struggling to get pregnant, not wanting to keep options option for later down the line).

Thanks in advance

@SW1amp my children are the same, I tell the oldest one she's probably really the youngest sometimes when she is bossing her younhet siblings about:)

It's a hard judgement to make OP and kudos to you for thinking it all through x

I think this is insanity personally. You have no idea if you can conceive naturally, you are still relatively young and you want to go through the IVF process to create embryos just in case? It is hard going, expensive, time consuming and emotional. I'd never willingly put myself through it.

I conceived both my children through frozen embryo transfers because I HAD to. I'd never have chosen to. I'm now at the stage I have to destroy my remaining blastocysts and it's awful. To me the embryo represent so much and I'm so protective over them, but I have to destroy them. You're talking about a situation where you'd make them and then if you got pregnant naturally you'd just get rid. What a monumental waste of resources!

If you were early 40s I'd maybe be inclined to think about some intervention on a 'just in case' basis but you're early 30s with no history of infertility and no reason whatsoever to think you wouldn't conceive naturally. By all means get a fertility MOT or whatever but freezing blastos in case you decide to use them one day when you feel like it, if plan A doesn't work - I think that's massively OTT personally.

Sorry if I'm a bit grumpy about this but it's baffled and annoyed me a bit.

The only thing I've thought as I've read through your posts is where you've said that if you decide you do want children that you'll try for them - does that mean try the old fashioned way?

What if you fall pregnant naturally as many times as you'd like to, but still have your frozen embryos? Worth a discussion to make sure you're both on the same page as to what would happen to them in that instance, destroyed/donated etc. I can imagine it may feel more difficult to do that when you have children as you can more easily imagine who they could become, if that makes sense.

Not trying to be negative as I've no experience of this, it's just a thought.

Cross posted with @ToadstoolBubbleMaker there who's raised the same points but has had experience of this

It's especially barking if you don't even know if you want children! You put yourself in the position of having "just in case" embryos you then have to destroy, or maybe your DH decides he actually doesn't want DC and had them destroyed in the face of your pain and there's not a thing you can do about it? And meanwhile you're tens of thousands of k in the hole needlessly? I'm not even sure private clinics would treat you. Would they consider it ethical to run the associated risks completely unnecessarily?

This just doesn't make any sense. If you don't know if you want children at all, it's time to figure it out. If you do want children, it would be a much better use of your time to get your life into a decent place for them. I'm really not trying to be unkind, but I think you're clutching at straws in a slightly bizarre way. Life doesn't really work that way, you just have to make your choices and deal with the consequences.

Op I think it's a great idea if you have the funds. I went through 5 rounds of IVF from the age of 36 as we couldn't conceive naturally. I wish I'd had the foresight to freeze embryos 5 years earlier. My consultant definitely said the quality of eggs is so much better when you're younger. (we weren't successful). I think if you're not ready for children now, but you're also not ready to say never, then freezing embryos is a fantastic idea.

I'm sorry for your circumstances OP but I too think this plan is barking mad. IVF is incredibly invasive and disruptive as well as hugely expensive. There are a lot of emotional and ethical factors wrapped up as well.

Clinics may have objections to creating embryos that the parents have no firm plans of ever implanting. You would be referred to for counselling (I think all IVF patients are).

Why not get some basic fertility tests to understand what you might be facing?

I think you're crazy

And to be honest pretty selfish - oh I'll just use a donor 🤬

Embryos frozen in a lab shouldn't be your back up plan like having a change of outfit in the wardrobe

Just try having a child like regular people - rent your flat out of you can't sell it due the cladding issue

I also think this plan is a bit mad - I can sort of see some logic in it but it’s an awful lot of work to protect against a downside risk you have no idea about. The fact you’re not even sure that you want kids at all is even more baffling - if you were 100% clear that you definitely wanted to be a mother it’d make more sense to me.

That said, some things to think about

• personally I would do a fertility MOT as step 1 and see what your numbers say
• if they are good, would consider freezing eggs only. The new techniques of freezing are much better than old and you will save money on the embryology right now.
• if you do go down the road of creating embryos, get the ones you create genetically tested - even if you end up w 5+ blasts you will have no way of knowing which are viable without this testing. It is expensive (£4K for 8 embryos) but without it you will be none the wiser. Success rate on a tested embryo transfer is 80%.

Either way you need to think of it as likely doing 3+ cycles of IVF - that will take you the better part of 6 months and will be very intrusive / disruptive to your life. Are you ready to devote 6 months of your life to baby making even though you’re not ready to make babies?!

We are definitely going to have fertility tests (that's a necessary first step).

We understand we would both need to consent to use of / destruction of the embryos. We think donating them to research would be the right thing to do. I'm not minimising the gravity of it but if we split up I wouldn't want my husband's baby nor he mine.

I'm sorry this is touching a nerve that's why I didn't put it in conception.

I appreciate the concerns people have raised but you absolutely can 'electively' free embryos where we are, it is a fertility preservation option open to people who can afford it privately. It's also not that expensive - all IVF except e.g. prior to cancer treatment is paid for privately here (self funded or private insurance) and I suspect that makes it a lot cheaper than the UK. I spent some time comparing costs with UK and here to see if it would be cheaper in UK and the answer is no.

Thank you for the robust comments, I do think it's a big decision so it is good to have your head wobbled. I would love to chat to my mum about it but I think she'd just get upset as I think she's given up on grandchildren after 5 years !

Tigger no one said anything about a donor.

The flat is rented but we expect it will be vacant for 18 months to 2 years as under full scaffolding.

No prospect of selling which means we can't buy a place here and put down roots. Unfortunately we put down a very big deposit, all our money is tied up in it. It is what it is but I think anyone similarly in this boat will tell you it's painfully stressful.

We also do not have the correct papers to stay in this country long term. I think you missed that bit when you jumped in to call me selfish.

Hi Stealth, we are going to budget for three thanks. I will look into the genetic testing I had assumed that would be included. Naive.

@Dexy007

Tigger no one said anything about a donor.

The flat is rented but we expect it will be vacant for 18 months to 2 years as under full scaffolding.

No prospect of selling which means we can't buy a place here and put down roots. Unfortunately we put down a very big deposit, all our money is tied up in it. It is what it is but I think anyone similarly in this boat will tell you it's painfully stressful.

We also do not have the correct papers to stay in this country long term. I think you missed that bit when you jumped in to call me selfish.

You mentioned you’d happily use an egg donor. Which I assume is what that poster was referring to.

@5zeds

I think your chances of conceiving naturally are probably higher than your chances with a frosty. The impact on your body will be less and I think fresh embryo would be preferable.

This isn’t what I was told when I went down this route. Ivf is better for conception as it’s more controlled and embryos that survive the freezing and defrosting process are very strong. Op how long exactly do you plan to wait?? Don’t underestimate your energy levels at 30 compared to 40, small children are exhausting!

I apologise, I thought it was clear we want to explore IVF using our own egg and sperm. If it transpired I was infertile and we cannot successfully freeze embryos then in future egg donor is something I would be open to.

If it doesn't work out for us by the time I am approximately 40 then I think we will call it quits. That is just my own thought process at this point in time and I am not inferring or suggesting it should be anyone else's baseline.

I know they're exhausting that's why I'm not sure I want them! But in future we will hopefully have space for my mum to come and live with us and help with them. Not something we can contemplate in current circumstances (can only afford a one bed flat atm - hoping when flat is finally sold can afford more space).

Op I was in your situation a few years ago. Very into my career and very concerned about my ambivalence (if you could even call it that) to have children. I just turned 36 and something just changed. I became ready. It'll happen for you, too, if you want that. Don't overthink it. It doesn't even feel like a big deal to me now.

I am hoping that won't be us as we don't want children in the foreseeable future. (Money, housing situation, jobs etc)

I'm slightly confused OP. You don't have enough money to have a dc for tge foreseeable so where will you source the money for this?

By the time you've spent all this money you would be able to afford a dc. Surely it's counter productive?

Hi user, explained upthread. In a weird situation where IVF would be a drop in the ocean compared to the other things going on financially. Have a flat worth best part of a mil which had a lot of equity in it (on paper) until EWS1 came along. We can afford IVF just not a house deposit, iyswim. Thought could sell flat to finance house, now can't and are kinda saving up on the assumption flat never sells so we are starting from scratch deposit wise. Will take us quite a few years. You live and learn!

OP one thing that has been mentioned but I don’t think you’ve picked up on is what happens if you freeze embryos, break up and you desperately want a baby but your exDH won’t let you use them and you have no alternative? It is heartbreaking destroying embryos / donating them to science even when you don’t want to use them.
Also the absolute stress and toll taken on your body of IVF is horrendous - my thighs were so tight from all the injections there were days the the needles just wouldn’t go in on several different attempts. It is battering and bruising.
Good luck if this is what you decide to do.

Sorry to hear this Martinis. I do understand that risk but it needs to be set off against - what if you want a baby in 5 years, can't get pregnant, and know you could have investigated this and made back up plans 5 years ago? No easy answers. I think it will be a tough process physically but at least without so many emotional triggers if we do it now. Less pressure on us.

Absolutely @Dexy007, you definitely have your eyes open. Wishing you all the luck whatever you decide.

5zeds I don't have any reason to doubt we could conceive naturally (we have never tried) but we don't know if we want kids. If we later decide we do we will try but will take some comfort in knowing there is a fallback option in the embryos. how late are you thinking of leaving it? What are the chances of getting pg naturally at that age and what are the chances of getting pg with a frosty?

I have children who were ivf, natural, and frozen. I wouldn’t opt for frozen unless it was the only way.

Just wanted to say the stats cited on the other page by pp are from (among other places) the NHS website www.nhs.uk/pregnancy/trying-for-a-baby/how-long-it-takes-to-get-pregnant/

I'm almost 36 and pregnant with my first - we had also never tried before so had no idea if it would be possible. We fell pregnant after just under 6 months of trying naturally so the stats seem accurate to us at least!

I think fertility testing should be your first step as you say. Other planning is based on speculation at this point so best to see what shape you are both in and then take necessary medical intervention as needed.