9/11 Life Under Attack - ITV last night. Sensitive content

[MydogWillow]

I'm unsure where to post this as it's to off-load really.

I sometimes watch programmes on 9/11 but found last night's ITV one so incredibly harrowing. It's stuck with me moreso than the others possibly because it was mostly personal footage.

It was a superbly put together programme but has affected me so much last night and today. I just wanted to see if anyone else has been particularly affected by this one?

The footage which has particularly stayed with me are the things I haven't seen before: the thuds on the canopy, the eery piped music in the plaza/complex still playing in the aftermath, the lady speaking to the emergency service telephone operator and the students reactions.

The whole thing is still incomprehensible. I guess the personal footage brings home the impact that day had on ordinary people's lives and how they have coped since.

I watched this last night and am still thinking about it. It was well made and terrible. -It was oddly matter-of-fact and all the more powerful for it. The sounds have stayed with me too.

The tragedy might have happened an American city (and was an attack aimed at the 'American flag') - but felt as if it could be anywhere. Isn't that partly why it was so shocking?

(My own family were in the middle of life-changing events / tragedy of our own when it happened - so the experience might be different for me.)

I suppose that when the 9/11 attack happened, the 1000s affected were instantly visible and therefore imaginable in a way that those in other terrible events have not been.

It never felt like a one-nation tragedy. This program brought that out for me. -That something so huge could fall and that so many people could be so vulnerable - and all filmed so that we seem to be right there with them...

[quote Realyorkshiretea]**@RedToothBrush I think your post is rather self indulgent if I’m honest. I’m very sorry for your struggles, but should they really have any bearing on the remembrance of 9/11, particularly as I presume you have no personal link to that atrocity? I’m sorry if I’m wrong there and you do have a personal link. But otherwise I cannot see the relevance of your feelings to the fact people want to commemorate the anniversary and pay their respects without being dragged into a debate.[/quote]
I agree I'm afraid

@RedToothBrush your feelings are valid and interesting but lecturing the rest of us for not feeling the same way you do about 9/11 and not caring enough about the rest of the world is a bit unfair

I research war and atrocity for a living, I was personally affected by 9/11, I do not need to be lectured to about any of this

@REP22 I'm sorry this weekend will be hard for you

[quote Realyorkshiretea]@RedToothBrush I think your post is rather self indulgent if I’m honest. I’m very sorry for your struggles, but should they really have any bearing on the remembrance of 9/11, particularly as I presume you have no personal link to that atrocity? I’m sorry if I’m wrong there and you do have a personal link. But otherwise I cannot see the relevance of your feelings to the fact people want to commemorate the anniversary and pay their respects without being dragged into a debate.[/quote]
I'm sorry you think that way.

I have learnt over the years on the internet that sometimes it is simply important to say how you feel because you reflect the views of others in some way even though it might go against the tide of what everyone else says.

Its important, not just to me, but to others to get different messages across and not have a singular opinion about how we should all think and feel about catastrophic events. Be it 9/11 or another event. It can be lonely finding yourself in a position where you just are processing things in a completely different way to others and outside this 'collective trauma' in some way.

Others may not have the exact same feeling or experiences but may have had their own and perhaps can relate to what I say in some way.

If you think thats self indulgent, thats your prorogative and I realise I am never going to change that.

As I say traumatic events affect us all differently. That owes a huge amount to what we have been exposed to before.

I research war and atrocity for a living, I was personally affected by 9/11, I do not need to be lectured to about any of this

Maybe you dont.

But maybe others need to be aware that not everyone feels the same about things and they dont need permission to say how they feel and to express that however they damn well like.

@RedToothBrush

But you’re not offering a perspective as such. You’re trying to link your personal and unrelated traumas to 9/11 despite having no actual ties to the event. I think you’re making it about you, when the memorial should be about the victims and their families. You’re entitled to say whatever you like, of course. But pretending that other people ‘need’ to hear about how such a devastating tragedy affected ‘you’ as a completely removed person, and how therefore their messages of respect are WRONG, is not only self indulgent it is ludicrous.

This always happens with 9/11. Someone always starts with the whattaboutery, and the "America isn't innocent ya know"

I've been on MN for five years or so, and you're right, it's as predictable as the setting sun. Something about it brings out the worst in some MN'ers

It's because it really really needs saying. Every mention of 9/11, the media coverage, the cultural touchstone of it...it's all treated as if it was the worst thing to ever happen anywhere. It IS treated as if the US was a completely innocent and unexpected target, it IS treated as if the deaths of 3,000 americans was a million times worse than all the other deaths of this time, such as those the US has been responsible for.

It's brought up because it is relevant, and the accepted message is far too sanitised and saccharine. We have a duty to give balance and fairness, which certainly never comes from the western media.

@ManifestDestinee do you not feel the extensive coverage and human charitable reaction to the recent events in Afghanistan are not sufficient to show we also care about people in the middle east?

[quote Realyorkshiretea]@ManifestDestinee do you not feel the extensive coverage and human charitable reaction to the recent events in Afghanistan are not sufficient to show we also care about people in the middle east?[/quote]
No, I don't. Most of the mess was caused because of how little we care about people in the middle east. Where was the coverage of the US airstrikes that killed 25,000 civilians? Where are the hundreds of hours of documentaries about those victims, and their families, and their legacies?
They don't exist. We barely even reported them the day they happened. We don't value dead Iraqi children the way we value american ones, and thats a fact.

@ManifestDestinee

This always happens with 9/11. Someone always starts with the whattaboutery, and the "America isn't innocent ya know"

I've been on MN for five years or so, and you're right, it's as predictable as the setting sun. Something about it brings out the worst in some MN'ers

It's because it really really needs saying. Every mention of 9/11, the media coverage, the cultural touchstone of it...it's all treated as if it was the worst thing to ever happen anywhere. It IS treated as if the US was a completely innocent and unexpected target, it IS treated as if the deaths of 3,000 americans was a million times worse than all the other deaths of this time, such as those the US has been responsible for.

It's brought up because it is relevant, and the accepted message is far too sanitised and saccharine. We have a duty to give balance and fairness, which certainly never comes from the western media.

I'll repeat my earlier post upthread:

I appreciate the subject of 9/11 is huge and opens up many, many debates - rightly so - but my thread was specifically about the ITV programme and how the content affected me more than other 9/11 footage. Nothing more

@ManifestDestinee

This always happens with 9/11. Someone always starts with the whattaboutery, and the "America isn't innocent ya know"

I've been on MN for five years or so, and you're right, it's as predictable as the setting sun. Something about it brings out the worst in some MN'ers

It's because it really really needs saying. Every mention of 9/11, the media coverage, the cultural touchstone of it...it's all treated as if it was the worst thing to ever happen anywhere. It IS treated as if the US was a completely innocent and unexpected target, it IS treated as if the deaths of 3,000 americans was a million times worse than all the other deaths of this time, such as those the US has been responsible for.

It's brought up because it is relevant, and the accepted message is far too sanitised and saccharine. We have a duty to give balance and fairness, which certainly never comes from the western media.

Oh please. People relate to it more, sure. We're not stupid, we know other things happen in the world. Most people don't mention 9/11 other than in the run up to September, it doesn't need saying

It's not a competition and as the OP said, the thread was started about a specific TV documentary

The whattaboutery is actually really unpalatable. Victims of the tragedy, who by the way were from all walks of life, are allowed to remembered without others downplaying it.

People are allowed to also be interested in 9/11 and the events specifically, without having to do a tribute every time they utter the phrase

I appreciate the subject of 9/11 is huge and opens up many, many debates - rightly so - but my thread was specifically about the ITV programme and how the content affected me more than other 9/11 footage. Nothing more

I'm afraid you don't get to control what other people want to say even if you started the thread.
If all you want to talk about is your personal reaction to the TV show, talk to an empty room. Other people are sharing how it made them feel, and it makes me feel vaguely sick at the hypocrisy and mawkishness, as well as the pruient nature of the footage.

It's not whataboutery at all, its pertinent and relevant.

It’s like concentration camps or what the nazis did in the war. I know what happened I know details I can not erase from my brain so now I don’t watch any content about that at all.

Plus the lovely work friend I was with on that day is dead now so memories of her are triggered by this too.

@ManifestDestinee

Of course they exist. Where on Earth are you looking? Whether or not the level of coverage is adequate is subjective, but currently on iPlayer :

Once Upon a Time in Iraq
Bitter Lake
Afghanistan and the US
Afghanistan: Back to the Future
The Iraq War
One Day in Gaza
Our World: Return of the Taliban
Syria: the World’s War
Iraq’s Secret Sex Trade

And that’s just glancing at the ‘documentaries’ page, which doesn’t include ‘news’ programmes such as Panorama etc.

By comparison I could see 2 documentaries about 9/11, one of them being more about what took place in the White House on the day.

So it is there; maybe you’re just looking in the wrong places & there is a bit of confirmation bias going on.

So tell me Manifest, will you be going on the Remembrance Day threads and ranting about the Empire?

Go on all the Christmas threads and remind people their gifts were probably made by slave labour?

Pop over to Bereavement and tell people not to feel bad, at least their loved ones weren't killed by US airstrikes?

I don't actually disagree with the nature of your opinions but it's really not necessary to come on every 9/11 thread and rant about how evil the US is. That is not providing balance, that's just fulfilling some self-appointed saviour fantasy running through your head.

If I could I would talk to people about atrocities all day long because it's so frustrating no one cares, but guess what, people don't like being lectured and guilt-tripped and it's a terrible way to get people on board.

That is not providing balance, that's just fulfilling some self-appointed saviour fantasy running through your head

Quite. If this was a discussion about foreign policy, or war in general etc then yes absolutely that would be the right place to discuss opinions. But on threads discussing a specific atrocities, it’s in very poor taste and reeks of needing to have a ‘superior perspective’.

The sound of the bodies hitting the canopy was truly horrific.

I’m strangely fascinated by all the footage as I was on holiday at the time and had no tv access, only radio and then the papers the next day.

The thing that always hits me hard is the second plane flying into the second tower.

So tell me Manifest, will you be going on the Remembrance Day threads and ranting about the Empire?

I don't rant, but if people were fetishing and only remembering on set of people and ignoring others, I'd probably mention it. Like if people are banging on abotu how great Churchill was and how he won the war, I'd probably mention the millions of people he was responsible for killing via famine in Bengal at the same time.
Balance.

Anyone the thread was about how the footage made people feel, and I posted about how it made me feel. Really not seeing the need to pile on me, but have at it if you must.

I don't rant, but if people were fetishing and only remembering on set of people and ignoring others, I'd probably mention it.

Fetishising? I'm sorry but you're nuts and any point you may have had has just evaporated.

Do you actually do the same on remembrance day to veterans?

Do you actually do the same on remembrance day to veterans?

Yeah, I seek and accost 95 year olds. I have a cape and everything.

@ManifestDestinee

Do you actually do the same on remembrance day to veterans?

Yeah, I seek and accost 95 year olds. I have a cape and everything.

So just 9/11 then? Why is it so outrageous to suggest?

@tryrantosaurus

I don't rant, but if people were fetishing and only remembering on set of people and ignoring others, I'd probably mention it.

Fetishising? I'm sorry but you're nuts and any point you may have had has just evaporated.

Do you actually do the same on remembrance day to veterans?

⬆️

So just 9/11 then? Why is it so outrageous to suggest?

Just 9/11 on a thread about 9/11, yes. That's how discussions work you know.

@ManifestDestinee

I appreciate the subject of 9/11 is huge and opens up many, many debates - rightly so - but my thread was specifically about the ITV programme and how the content affected me more than other 9/11 footage. Nothing more

I'm afraid you don't get to control what other people want to say even if you started the thread.
If all you want to talk about is your personal reaction to the TV show, talk to an empty room. Other people are sharing how it made them feel, and it makes me feel vaguely sick at the hypocrisy and mawkishness, as well as the pruient nature of the footage.

It's not whataboutery at all, its pertinent and relevant.

Of course I can't control what people say and neither would I want to. I was merely trying to get the thread back on track to the TV programme as it seemed to be escalating beyond that.

As you'll read it was a post of offload and to see if anyone had the same reaction to that particular documentary and how the specific nature of using personal footage in that programme made people feel in comparison to other programmes that have been shown.

Perhaps I should've started the thread in Film & TV but felt it had more gravitas.

Like if people are banging on abotu how great Churchill was and how he won the war, I'd probably mention the millions of people he was responsible for killing via famine in Bengal at the same time.

So would I, but that's not the same thing.

If this were a thread about how great George W Bush was, then yes come on here and remind everyone about the hundreds of thousands of people he killed, absolutely.

What you're doing is more like if people were talking about how terrible the Blitz was, how ordinary people suffered, and you showed up and starting going on about how Churchill was a genocidal twat. I mean, you might be right, but it's not what people are talking about. And you're not going to convince anyone with that approach.