Catholic guilt and being gay

[anon6578]

I can’t get past it . I was brought up Catholic, confirmed at 14. I would argue now that I was not given a choice in making my confirmation; I was told it was what all Catholics must do ...

My mum is less religious - although still believes - but my grandmother is devout - ie raised in a convent by nuns - some of who have since been convicted of abuse, daily rosary, mass, pays money to SPUC, hands out leaflets to others about her beliefs. She is openly homophobic, she says awful things. I’ve never told her I’m gay but I think she suspects, at sixteen she told me if I was one of ‘those women’ I’d never be welcome home again.

We were taught as children that sex, bodies, are disgusting unless within a marriage - that marriage is for men and women only and anything else (including masturbation) is fornication/lust. My grandmother believes in a literal hell, and has told me many many times she believes that’s where I’m going for my ‘sins’ (ie not attending mass regularly).

My gran would argue anyone who is not Catholic will go to hell too, that no one can be truly good if they’re not going to mass.

I realised I was gay at 13, came out at 26 . I haven’t felt able to be true to myself at all, I feel like if I do I’m doing something awful and something to be ashamed of . I’m 30, I’ve never been in a relationship - I’m too scared because at the back of my mind is this idea of hell .

I don’t want to attend church anymore, I haven’t been to mass in years; I believe in God but I don’t believe in one who would actively punish me for something I did not choose . I don’t think I need to stay celibate for the rest of my life (as church would argue that’s the answer to being gay) . I think I should be afforded the same rights and respect as others .

My aunt (other side of family) ministers to a wonderfully inclusive church and celebrates gay marriage, goes to Pride etc. I’ve got gay friends who’ve found their place in other churches too. I’m scared to explore this myself though as have always been told I’ll eventually be punished for it - as much as I don’t think that’s true I can’t get the fear out of my mind.

I’m having therapy at the moment and my therapist has been encouraging me to pull back from family a bit, to contact only on my terms . She said I need to explore my identity a bit, but I genuinely don’t know how to . She wants to talk more about it this week but I’ve been going over and over it in my mind and panicking a bit, I don’t know how to even begin to feel more comfortable with myself .

Just wondering if anyone has been in the same position - trying to walk away from religion? How do you do it?

Why don't you go to the church your aunt goes to. I'm sure it will help. Doesn't mean you can't go to the catholic church to show your face every now and again. If there is a god he wouldn't want you to suffer would he?

Not the same situation, but I would encourage you to listen to this week's 'My Teenage Diary' Radio 4 programme. The writer and podcaster Deborah Frances White talks about her experiences being brought up as a Jehovah's Witness.

It's funny, but at the same time so interesting to hear how much she was indoctrinated to believe wholeheartedly in the 'rapture'. the religion shaped her world view and she has to make the decision to step away and live life on her own terms.

I was brought up catholic too and i do recognise a lot of what you are saying, my very religious very catholic Grandmothers (both of them) had some very un Christian views
If you have a faith and want to attend church, i agree why cant you go to the inclusive one your aunt goes to or similar, a lot of the catholic teachings are man made, and if there is a God who loves us all, then i can only think they would want to celebrate love between to adults, wether that same sex love or heterosexual?

I've sent you a rather long pm which I hope is helpful in some way.

Sometimes its not as easy as just going to another church though. It can be really hard, particularly if you've had a hard time there, or found it detrimental to your faith.

The book I mentioned in my pm is this one www.amazon.co.uk/Far-Rome-Near-God-Testimonies/dp/1848710208/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=Far+from+Rome&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1630843300&sr=8-3

Hopefully the link will work.

I don't judge people who leave for whatever reason. Simply seek some direction to find out if your faith issues are with people or with God.

If she keeps banging on about gay people is it possible she is gay herself and protesting too much? Like the man in American Beauty. Why does she keep on about it so much otherwise?

I think you need a break away from the family for a while,could you go stay with friends to get some headspace?
Sending ❤️ OP, Be yourself, be free.💐

Let go of religion for now. Stop complying with its demands as well as your family's demands. You may need to move away and live a bit somewhere that has diversity and a gay scene. Do you have gay friends? All this change and facing up to who you really are will require incredibly strength- it isn't going to be easy! Therapy will help strengthen you as will forming good supportive friendships. The struggle is worth it as a bit of you is dying, I'm sure, locked up in the closet.

Thank you

Yes I think there is some element of discomfort on my gran’s part because of the way she was raised, she never talked much about the convent much to my mum but as she’s getting older she’s saying more and more and none of its pleasant . It’s almost like a strange sort of Stockholm syndrome iyswim .

I am moving away funnily enough, next week, I think that’s what’s brought up so much questioning in my mind . I keep thinking it’s now or never - I need to break free from it all for a bit . Need to learn more about myself and explorer who I am a bit .

I have a couple of friends/colleagues who are gay, in relationships etc - I think I do need to try and push myself out a bit more. Home is very isolated in every sense, I think moving (to a much a bigger city) will help too.

It is difficult yes, definitely . I’m so worried about speaking to therapist as I’m scared of admitting out loud that I’m no longer comfortable with this religion or with the level of control .

@Becca19962014 thanks so much for the PM, will message you back . I remember going to Catholic society when I went to uni the first time around, when I was much younger - 18 or 19 - and that was staffed by a very liberal nun who spent her afternoons arguing with others about why she felt women could be priests …

It sounds to me like a very outdated view. I’m 30 and went to a convent school. We were taught never to persecute gay people. My mother and grandmother are both practicing RC, but if they’d have heard me say anything homophobic growing up, I’d have been grounded for life!

Please don’t feel guilty, I really don’t believe that’s what Catholicism is about anymore. Sounds more like old fashion bigotry, hidden behind the guise of religion.

I hope you get to the happy place you deserve. ♥️

@anon6578 I hope it's helpful and your session goes well. All nuns are indeed not the same!

Don't put too much pressure on yourself in the new place, do what you're comfortable with to begin with, because moving can be stressful anyway without extra pressure, and, then when able push yourself.

For what it's worth you're not going to hell. God loves you, he made you, you're perfect just as you are.
If faith is important to you you'll find your place. You really will. But if you're from a religious family changing your way of worshipping is like giving up on family traditions, it's a big deal. I get that.

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic schools and thankfully never acquired the "Catholic guilt" . I'm currently pregnant out of wedlock 🤣🤣 time and the church to some degree has moved on. You can have your faith and be gay, thousands and thousands of people are.

You don’t have to walk away from religion if you don’t want.

Find a more accepting church and congregation. Our (catholic) priest doesn't give a flying fuck if you’re straight, gay, married, divorced, other denominations- his pov is churches are struggling and anyone who walks in the door should be made welcome. Better that than empty churches.

Walk away from those who don’t accept you and find those who do.

Have you got Netflix? Look up Hannah Gadsby the comedian esp her show Nanette which is on similar topics (and is brilliant).

Have you read straight jacket by matthew todd? Its more men focused, but the content still very much applies.

My birth family sound similar to your Grandma, I don’t see any of them and I’m much happier for it.

There must be groups etc for gay RC people around? Have you looked into that? RL is way better than online obv.

I also sent convent school loads of RC people round here. Mainly culturally Catholic if you get what I mean. Confirmed some go to church etc.

No issues with abortion being gay etc etc for anyone I know.

Where were you raised and what background?

I'm nearly 50 but experiences are obv v different depending on lots of factors.

Do you actually want to be a Christian?

If so there are many churches, such as your aunt's that would have no problem with you being gay.

If you do want to continue being a Christian - do you still want to be a Catholic?

Because again, there are Catholic churches out there which wouldn't be bothered. Even those that are, wouldn't behave like your Gran, times have moved on!

Also raised Catholic here. Taught never to persecute or judge anyone. I still go to Church occasionally and believe. I have a few family members who are gay. Life is too short to worry about what other people think of you. If church is important to you then go to another more accepting church.
If you have accepted yourself, you maybe need to accept that members of your community may not accept you as a gay person - religious or not. You will not change their views so I personally would move to another Church if it will make your life better.

I tend to believe that it feels absurd that a single reference (potentially a handful at most) is so heavily focused on by people where the things that were referenced time and time again are ignored. Jesus repeatedly told us to both not judge others and to love others as we love ourselves for example. And yet this is NOT what your Nan or any other person is doing when they condemn homosexuality as sinful.

Your relationship with God is yours. He made you and knew you in your mother's womb - he knows you can't choose the way you feel and yet he still made you this way. People will say you should choose celibacy as its only the sexual acts that are a sin but to me that's absurd. God made you, he is infallible and therefore you are made perfectly in the image he chose for you and I would say he wants you to be happy.

I should add that I was raised Catholic and am still a practising Catholic. I do like aspects of the faith but I really struggle with the sheer hypocrisy of 'christians' sometimes.

It's more important to be a good person and do good things then get caught up on judging others in my humble opinion. If you don't want to go to Mass then don't. Find a more inclusive church or just skip the church altogether and be yourself.

I was raised extremely RC, the ones that fast and pray on Fridays and know the mass in latin. When I got older I started questioning a lot of the rituals and the conversations about hell. I then started studying other religions to understand the meanings. To me the concept of hell started as a way to scare and control people. The older religions relied on the few that could read and write. Thats how I interpret it.
God is love and we are here living an experience of love and not of fear, to be who we are supposed to be. Do and live as you wish, time passes so fast that when its time to depart, we should only carry the happy memories. I still go to church, mass, choir and now have a better understanding of the messages of the bible and the rituals of the church. I now find some of the rituals fascinating but I only take what I feel reaches my spirit. If you have a chance read brother Lawrence and how he conversed with God.
The message is, don't judge yourself, create your own way to communicate with your God and live in harmony with yourself.

Not exactly the same but I found it liberating to learn more about another religion from the inside. Learning about Judaism in a proper synagogue class made it much easier to understand my own ground-in assumptions from Christianity.

Life experiences have ended up confirming me as an atheist. But many people I respect are religious, I still don't think any human has all the answers.

I'm a Christian. Of course you're not 'bad', going to Hell or otherwise. If God had wanted you otherwise, he'd have created you otherwise. Living a good, useful life with love in it is what Jesus taught us and is the only thing that matters.

Some priests are openly gay. They reconcile it/
''Male, Female
Black, White
Gay, Straight
All are precious in God's sight...''
That's on a sign outside a church I pass every day, so it's not like carved in stone in every parish that gay = bad now.