Overbearing friend - would you lie?

[FanFiction]

During lockdown, I grew closer to a friend. She is very positive and assertive, so it was great to go for walks, swap books, etc. with someone so forthright and energetic, but the negative side is that I learnt during our time spent together that she is also highly competitive, opinionated, and, I would say, controlling. She was away all summer (not English) so in her absence I’ve decided to create some distance. Also, maybe some of her behaviours are cultural.

On her return, she expected me to drop everything and meet her. I was busy early this week but said another friend suggested me doing an activity with him on Thurs/Fri.

She immediately said that Thursday is better for her. I repeated that I wanted to keep those 2 days free for the activity. Activity-friend popped by unexpectedly yesterday on his way home (he lives near me, she doesn’t) and as we had a few hours over coffee, he didn’t mention his activity again. It’s not a one off, it’s a particular hike we do, sometimes together & sometimes apart.

I just know that overbearing-friend will contact me this morning, suggesting today again. I hate lying but equally I don’t want to see her today.

WWYD?

There’s a whole load more besides, but my question is - should I lie today & just make her believe I’m still doing the activity? That feels awkward & I hate lying.

How do I create distance? I do like her, but for the sake of my sanity, I need to redress the powder balance.

No I don’t think so, @Mariell. I’ve made it very clear that I am busy.

@coffeeisthebest

I don't think you like her OP. You clearly don't agree but you are coming across as really passive aggressive on this thread. She may be controlling but you are falling into being controlled, surely, otherwise you wouldn't have started this thread? Maybe step back and think about if this is the relationship that you want. She is how she is, she doesn't have to change for you. If you don't want this, then that's ok, sometimes friendships end.

As I’ve said repetitively, I do like her - and the positive aspects to her character. But I don’t like the way in which she does this to me. I’d say she brings out my aggressive, rather than passive aggressive side, tbh, because it feels like she is push push pushing me all the time. The thread has turned a little into a character analysis as it has unfolded, but that’s typical of threads on here.

My original post was, indeed, about how to create space to make this the friendship that I would like, and which both she and I can tolerate.

I had to do this with a friend who got way too intense. Like you, I do like her! She’s just really full on. I just let it go longer before replying to texts. She turned up at my house! But I just kept up the taking longer to reply, and things are much better now.

@shinynewapple21

I think you are making this way more over complicated than it needs be! You don't need to let others know every little thing you are doing !

I think you complicated things to start by saying you were maybe doing something Thursday or Friday, then changed saying Friday better for you. You haven't told her you've got a set thing happening so I can see why she may think you can swap your loose arrangement for Thursday/ Friday .

It would have been easier to simply say you are busy this week but you can do next .

It's also perfectly reasonable to say to someone that when you've had a busy week with activities every other day that you need a day to catch up at home and just chill.

Thanks, @shinynewapple21, it certainly sounds complicated on here because as the thread unfolds, posters ask for details. It’s not particularly complicated in real life.

She knew what the arrangement was, so it was perfectly plausible for me to say I thought I would be hiking today so that left tomorrow free to meet her. It’s that she always wants to be right & to have things on her terms. I also think she doesn’t like that I put other friends before her, on this occasion.

I think you need to be less available. Not just to meet but even for contact.

Take back control of the level of contact. It’s too much and often for you, so don’t engage until you want to.

@SquarePeggyLeggy Thank you! I need to do this, too. Yes, she has often threatened with a surprise visit if I hold my space! I think yes, there is prob a lot in the fact she texts incessantly sometimes. Am learning to take time before I reply & to not give so much detail. She caught me out on this occasion!

'Thursday is better for me'
'As I said I'm keeping Thursday free, if you can't do Friday how are you fixed for next week?'

Don't let her bully you into agreeing something you've already said you don't want to do.

I still think you sound passive and reactive. You say you were keeping two entire days this week free for a vague arrangement about going hiking, and that arrangement then seems to have vanished because the hiking friend didn't mention it when he visited unexpectedly, so it sounds as if you didn't actually particularly want to do it, anyway, or surely you would have. Then you seem to be having difficulty asserting your own boundaries against this other friend, who is also saying she will drop by unexpectedly, which you clearly don't want.

@LargeBouquet

I still think you sound passive and reactive. You say you were keeping two entire days this week free for a vague arrangement about going hiking, and that arrangement then seems to have vanished because the hiking friend didn't mention it when he visited unexpectedly, so it sounds as if you didn't actually particularly want to do it, anyway, or surely you would have. Then you seem to be having difficulty asserting your own boundaries against this other friend, who is also saying she will drop by unexpectedly, which you clearly don't want.

Perhaps from the info on here. Obvs, there is a lot more to it than that - they weren’t two entire days (and even if they were, so what? It’s a long hike & weather dependent). I’m still meeting her tomorrow, it’s not that I didn’t want to meet her at all. I just felt railroaded into it happening when she dictated.

I have absolutely no boundary issues with my male friend. On the contrary! He dropped by unexpectedly in the sense he & I didn’t plan it, but he did text me to check it was ok first.

I’m afraid I can’t go through the minutiae of it on here, but I do know myself pretty well & I am not a passive person.

The more you post the more I am wondering why you have this “friend”.

You didn’t choose her / your paths crossed in lockdown.

You can have friends for a reason or a season - give yourself permission to withdraw or move on or move back to pre-lock down life especially if she is showing she has poor social skills and boundaries - not just with you but by falling out with others frequently - that’s a big clue of the reality of her personality even if you choose to ignore your own gut feelings of being controlled.

She has no boundaries:

Critical of your DC?
Offering unsolicited advice about YOUR project?
Turning up on your doorstep?

Ignoring your time slots (for someone who micro-manages their own kids - this behaviour is determined)

Then the emotionally controlling behaviours when you don’t jump to her tune:

Sulks
PA Facebook posts
Upping the ante (begging) on the type of event

She won’t take “No” for an answer - leaves you manipulated and feeling guilty - this is not respectful friendship behaviour.

This is who she is. Others have worked it out and swerved her.

No one gets to dictate or demand your time, response rate, emotional energy etc.

Choose to dedicate your finite time and energy to friends who make you feel good - where the respect is mutual - don’t fritter it away on someone like this who leaves you feeling less than.

Your not compatible. Have no guilt in sidelining her and filling YOUR time with whatever YOU want to do.

I wouldn’t say very much other than “I have too much on today, one day next week would work better. Let me know what days suit”

I used to be friends with a woman at work that was very much like this. She was much older than me and had no children or family other than her partner, she seemed to have a lot of time on her hands and expected me to fill it! At the time I had 2 very young DC (think one had just started primary school and the other was nursery age), I was also working full time. By the time we all got home it was time for a quick tea and bath and bed for the kids. She just didn't get it at all, so many suggestions of evenings at the cinema or drinks after work etc, I just couldn't do it, it finally stopped when we had a conversation (unfortunately at work, her instigation) where I basically told her I couldn't be the friend she wanted as my family came first! She bloody sat at her desk crying all afternoon and we had a very awkward few months at work I tried to push back politely and she didn't get it, this is the problem with people like this. They are happy if they have the control (or think they have) but if you push back be prepared for an epic display of emotions and to be the bad guy! There will be a reason why she has so much time on her hands to contact you and isn't spread thinly with other friends and family!

@Sssloou

The more you post the more I am wondering why you have this “friend”.

You didn’t choose her / your paths crossed in lockdown.

You can have friends for a reason or a season - give yourself permission to withdraw or move on or move back to pre-lock down life especially if she is showing she has poor social skills and boundaries - not just with you but by falling out with others frequently - that’s a big clue of the reality of her personality even if you choose to ignore your own gut feelings of being controlled.

She has no boundaries:

Critical of your DC?
Offering unsolicited advice about YOUR project?
Turning up on your doorstep?

Ignoring your time slots (for someone who micro-manages their own kids - this behaviour is determined)

Then the emotionally controlling behaviours when you don’t jump to her tune:

Sulks
PA Facebook posts
Upping the ante (begging) on the type of event

She won’t take “No” for an answer - leaves you manipulated and feeling guilty - this is not respectful friendship behaviour.

This is who she is. Others have worked it out and swerved her.

No one gets to dictate or demand your time, response rate, emotional energy etc.

Choose to dedicate your finite time and energy to friends who make you feel good - where the respect is mutual - don’t fritter it away on someone like this who leaves you feeling less than.

Your not compatible. Have no guilt in sidelining her and filling YOUR time with whatever YOU want to do.

I dunno @Sssloou I feel your list is a little unfair.

Our paths crossed through some choices that we have made. So we hold similar opinions and preferences about some things. The flip side of her domineering side is that she gets me out and trying things that I might overlook. The flip side of her being assertive is that it makes me realise there are some choices in life. Nobody is perfect.

Looking through your list,

• She has demonstrated a critical attitude towards one of my DCs, not overtly been critical
• She hasn't turned up on my doorstep - she threatened this on one occasion. I've deliberately kept her away from where I live, I don't think she even has my address.

Some have swerved her, but equally she also has an active circle of friends and seems active, so I think she has other redeeming qualities!

True, she ignores my time slots and seems emotionally controlling and immature in how she deals with things. But I think I am a forgiving and compassionate person. She's only human. The question is how to deal with these things, now.

I enjoy her energy and learning about her culture. So I think maybe we can continue to be friends, but it has to look like something else. Thank you for pointing these things out, it's good to consider a list like this.

@JustGiveMeGin

I used to be friends with a woman at work that was very much like this. She was much older than me and had no children or family other than her partner, she seemed to have a lot of time on her hands and expected me to fill it! At the time I had 2 very young DC (think one had just started primary school and the other was nursery age), I was also working full time. By the time we all got home it was time for a quick tea and bath and bed for the kids. She just didn't get it at all, so many suggestions of evenings at the cinema or drinks after work etc, I just couldn't do it, it finally stopped when we had a conversation (unfortunately at work, her instigation) where I basically told her I couldn't be the friend she wanted as my family came first! She bloody sat at her desk crying all afternoon and we had a very awkward few months at work I tried to push back politely and she didn't get it, this is the problem with people like this. They are happy if they have the control (or think they have) but if you push back be prepared for an epic display of emotions and to be the bad guy! There will be a reason why she has so much time on her hands to contact you and isn't spread thinly with other friends and family!

@JustGiveMeGin That's so helpful, thank you for sharing. Gosh, poor you! Your case and mine have echoes, yes! She and I have different levels of time on our hands, and yes, she seems to expect me to fill her time. Or at least, it comes across as that - maybe it's cultural. When my other friends ask me for recommendations of what to watch/read/to meet/do stuff, it doesn't come across as critical or needy.

That is fabulous. I was thinking about having an open discussion too, if it persists, along the lines of I can't be the friend she wants because my family and work come first. That is perfect. I think you've hit the nail on the head - our expectations from this friendship are different.

She hasn't turned up on my doorstep - she threatened this on one occasion. I've deliberately kept her away from where I live, I don't think she even has my address.

This is no friend, she sounds like a right pain in the arse.
I've ditched "friends" like her and have no regrets.

She's like an anchor around your neck.

If you've tried everything else including saying you've decided against it, there's only one thing left.

You will have to say: "Thanks for asking, but I don't want to."

@FanFiction no worries, I was quite young at the time and didn't see it creeping up on me! Luckily I can spot 'needy' a mile off these days

@FanFiction

You've said pretty much the same thing about the interaction with your friend several times, ie:

so if she’s choosing to not hear that, it’s her issue & not mine…

I’ve already told her on several occasions, but for some reason, she’s not hearing it.

The problem is that this friend doesn’t hear me when I say I want to get on with my own stuff.

Unless she has a medical condition, there's nothing wrong with her hearing - she just wants what she wants, when she wants it.

Your polite boundaries really don't matter to her and. Overbearing", "controlling" people just want their own way whatever the cost to someone else.

I wouldn't lie to her. You may get temporary relief from her demands but lies have a way of rebounding on the liar and tripping you up. I think the firm, non-committal responses back to her, while they make take effort and practice whilst she gets used to a firmer approach from you, will work better in the long run - especially if you want to remain friends on some level. 🌹

Where is there a law which says you have to reply immediately? I often dont reply to emails for 24-48 hours. Or I send a "holding" message of something like:-

Got message - crazy busy now. will touch base later. M

OP I completely agree with @bamboocat advice, just start saying you don’t fancy it. I know it’s easier said than done but the way you have to think about it is if you say this, what can she actually respond with?

It doesn’t have to be nasty, just ‘thanks for asking but I don’t fancy doing that’ you can always follow up with another suggestion if you do actually want to see her but there’s nothing wrong with saying no.

I’m probably not the best person to offer advice as I have no issue saying no to people but maybe read ‘the life changing magic of not giving a fuck’ as that will help you realise the worth of your own time.

As for seeing her social media posts about doing things alone, seriously just block or mute or don’t look. Out of sight out of mind as they say (I came off Facebook a year ago and I’m so much happier not seeing people’s attention seeking updates). Finally, if she keeps repeating herself after you’ve already explained or declined to do something just stop replying. Or leave it longer between replies. You’re busy and it will get easier

Sorry don’t know how to quote a quote - so hope this makes sense!

“Sssloou
The more you post the more I am wondering why you have this “friend”.

You didn’t choose her / your paths crossed in lockdown.

You can have friends for a reason or a season - give yourself permission to withdraw or move on or move back to pre-lock down life especially if she is showing she has poor social skills and boundaries - not just with you but by falling out with others frequently - that’s a big clue of the reality of her personality even if you choose to ignore your own gut feelings of being controlled.

She has no boundaries:

Critical of your DC?
Offering unsolicited advice about YOUR project?
Turning up on your doorstep?

Ignoring your time slots (for someone who micro-manages their own kids - this behaviour is determined)

Then the emotionally controlling behaviours when you don’t jump to her tune:

Sulks
PA Facebook posts
Upping the ante (begging) on the type of event

She won’t take “No” for an answer - leaves you manipulated and feeling guilty - this is not respectful friendship behaviour.

This is who she is. Others have worked it out and swerved her.

No one gets to dictate or demand your time, response rate, emotional energy etc.

Choose to dedicate your finite time and energy to friends who make you feel good - where the respect is mutual - don’t fritter it away on someone like this who leaves you feeling less than.

Your not compatible. Have no guilt in sidelining her and filling YOUR time with whatever YOU want to do.”

I dunno @Sssloou I feel your list is a little unfair. (maybe it’s uncomfortable rather than unfair - it’s only an echo of your words and sentiment - maybe it’s even more uncomfortable hearing it back?)

Our paths crossed through some choices that we have made. (this is what you said originally - you said “this wasn’t someone I wanted to have a close friendship with - it just happened)

So we hold similar opinions and preferences about some things. The flip side of her domineering side is that she gets me out and trying things that I might overlook. The flip side of her being assertive is that it makes me realise there are some choices in life. Nobody is perfect.

Looking through your list,

• She has demonstrated a critical attitude towards one of my DCs, not overtly been critical (*Whats the actual difference - and why is a “critical attitude” towards your DC OK? She is also critical of you and you clothes - why is this acceptable to you?*)

• She hasn't turned up on my doorstep - she threatened this on one occasion. I've deliberately kept her away from where I live, I don't think she even has my address. (*this is quite an adaptation on your behalf - who has “friends” that they deliberately need to keep away? Also her incessant texting and logging on daily checking up on your plans is highly inappropriate - no wonder you feel controlled and suffocated*)

Some have swerved her, but equally she also has an active circle of friends and seems active, so I think she has other redeeming qualities! (but you said that “she has fallen out / not seen her other friends and often complains” - this suggests a high conflict / difficult person)

True, she ignores my time slots and seems emotionally controlling and immature in how she deals with things. But I think I am a forgiving and compassionate person (those qualities of yours won’t help her with her poor social skills and lack of boundaries - and you will just continue to be steamrolled and build resentment) She's only human. The question is how to deal with these things, now.

I enjoy her energy and learning about her culture. So I think maybe we can continue to be friends, but it has to look like something else. Thank you for pointing these things out, it's good to consider a list like this.

These are some of your other points:

You “decided to create some distance” - but she’s not letting you.

You say you feel you can’t say “No” (that’s because she is manipulative - meeting HER a needs)

You say she makes you feel bad and guilty

You say you come away feeling resentful

You say she talks over you and ignores your plans

You say she push, push, pushes you

The negative words you use to describe her include:

Controlling
Highly competitive
Opinionated
Overbearing
Suffocating
Exhausting (very, very)
Critical edge
Choosing not to hear you

People have the other qualities that you enjoy in her without the negative ones above.

You also mention “cultural differences” quite often - IME no culture has these negative traits.

I think maybe this is overanalysing the situation, @Sssloou. People come with positives and negatives. I think you are exaggerating some of the things I’ve mentioned. She’s a PITA but she’s not as bad as your list. And why can’t people have some friends who swerve them as well as an active circle? It’s not that deep…