Friendship/being an ethnic minority

[asianmumof2]

I’m British born and off South Asian origin. I remember growing up at school and at university that ethnic minorities/non white people would tend to group together when it came to friendship groups. I’ve found it be the same as an adult at baby groups where white British women group together and the only people I’ve found to be friendly with me are other ‘outsiders’ eg the odd black, chinese, european woman etc. I guess it’s understandable that people stick with what’s familiar, there are shared cultures/values/experiences etc so I’m not begrudging anyone here.

Due to circumstances a lot of my friendships have fizzled out and I’d like to make new friends (probably mum friends given the stage I’m at in life). I don’t live in a very diverse area and I’m struggling a bit.

I know a lot of people will claim ethnicity shouldn’t matter but all my experience to date suggests that it does. I do have white british acquaintances through work, neighbours etc so it’s not a matter of not integrating. The difficulty is with developing a deeper level of friendship maybe because my heritage culture is such a big part of who I am.

Rather than denial that this happens I’d be keen to hear from anyone who understands where I am coming from and has any advice.

Have you tried initiating the friendship with these women, asking if they want to meet for a coffee or have a playdate with the kids?

I'm white but immigrant parents & due to schooling & growing up in a diverse part of London my friends were all 2nd gen immigrants of a variety of ethnicities. When I got to uni I mixed with more English people (ie didn't have immigrant parents) but my closest friends & best friend were again 2nd gen immigrants. Going through my career it was/is the same, the people I bonded with were 2nd or 1st gen. My dc go to a predominately white English school but again the mums I have clicked with are 2nd gen immigrants. I think it's just having similar experiences? I'm not really sure why as it's not something I've done consciously. DH is the same and his friendship circle resembles mine.

Interesting topic (I am British Asian). I would say that I have pretty good friends of different ethnicities. However it is the South Asian ones that end of being family friends and socialising at weekends etc. They all know DH and kids and our kids also know each other. Always ask after DH and kids and I truly believe the friendship is genuine. But I just haven't been able to turn it into the comfortable friendships where you spend weekends socialising together. I know they do this with other people so what is it about me? I invite them around but they rarely accept invitations for dinner/ lunch but would come over for a coffee.

Prime example being our road : we get on very well with our British Asian and Ethnically British neighbours - the Brirish Asian neighbours say to come round whenever and always make plans to meet etc. However with the Ethnically British neighbours it seems to be something very much planned in advance ........

I think one big difference is that if your entire family live within a small area (as is often the case with white British) you tend to be more insular. We lived abroad for a number of years, in a country where white was the minority race, and I found my friends with strong family ties were busier with family parties than the other immigrants. We did break through and make friends with people from the place we lived but it took about 5/6 years. I am still friends with families from there 20 years later.

However with the Ethnically British neighbours it seems to be something very much planned in advance ........

I think it's the cultural differences. My parents are Irish & French & my parents always socialised with our Greek & Indian neighbours. It's very much come in whenever, move up on the sofa, have some food, bigger families, everyone getting involved etc. I don't think that's the English way (although that may just be my experience).

I'd have absolutely no problem developing friendship with someone from another culture. I have a number of international friends. I find their stories fascinating, so much to learn from them.
Don't give up! Just be yourself, I'm sure you'll find them.

Someone on MN once said that you must be a racist if all your friends are white. I was a bit surprised because it was the case for me living in Cardiff, but not something I'd gone looking for. I think one reason was that many people of colour in Cardiff are Muslims who don't drink or go to pubs and that's one of my favourite ways of socialising so it could be lack of shared interests I suppose and not going to the same places.

@LizziesTwin

I think one big difference is that if your entire family live within a small area (as is often the case with white British) you tend to be more insular. We lived abroad for a number of years, in a country where white was the minority race, and I found my friends with strong family ties were busier with family parties than the other immigrants. We did break through and make friends with people from the place we lived but it took about 5/6 years. I am still friends with families from there 20 years later.

OP's not an immigrant though.

I think sometimes there’s a bit of understanding of different family structures/politics with people of other non native ethnicities in U.K. that’s not to say that they are all the same, but I kind of find it’s something to bond over and initiate conversations. So I guess I do kind of gravitate towards non-native U.K. people in a group. Maybe get involved in a shared interest group - like a hobby, rather than just a social group - then people tend to initiate talk about the shared interest (sport or technical aspects of hobby or whatever).

I am white with 1 English parent but was not born or raised in UK but I did attend uni in UK. I found at uni i got along really well with all the other immigrants (didn't really matter what race) and not so much with the British born (again didn't matter race so much)... it just seemed like the immigrants didn't have established social groups so were easier to make friends with. Whereas the British born people all had established lives and didn't really have any time available. That did eventually carry over into work as well but I was able to eventually make a British friend or 2 but they are still not very available in comparison.

I think it’s British culture in a way. You only have to see on here people being absolutely horrified at friends/MILs/whoeever just popping round and expecting to come in for tea and coffee, expecting food etc. there are large numbers of posters who won’t even

Things here I think have to be arranged and planned in advance on a mutually agreeable date/time or Brits just evaporate with the shock of the spontaneity 😬 maybe friendships form out of this need for planning - WhatsApp groups need to be made, a date needs to be agreed etc, then the one hour meetup for coffee can be put in the diary (lol). There’s not much wiggle room for inviting or including new people. I’ve found this to be the case at a lot of workplaces and in every day life.

I’m British but have Irish heritage and we were the house where friends turned up, had food, made themselves at home. Sometimes my brother had friends who stayed for 3 weeks at a time 😂 there are posters on here who genuinely couldn’t cope with that and I think a lot of it is societal.

@Shelddd however the OP and I would also have our family and deep rooted networks here. It is not that

First paragraph - should say large numbers of posters who won’t even answer the phone to friends if it’s not a ‘pre planned’ phone call

I see this happening OP and go out of my way to speak to people from ethnic minorities at toddler groups etc, both because I hate that this is the reality, don’t want people feeling marginalised, and I hate the lack of diversity in my area so want my kids to not grow up only seeing me interacting with white people. I’m also curious as to what happens when you try to initiate chat, although I appreciate that may be hard when you get this vibe.

@Blueeyedgirl21 MNs opened my eyes & the class obsession!

All the reasons given why immigrants/children of immigrants tend to find it easier to make friendships with each other are interesting. I don’t know if it’s to do with having family nearby and availability (I have a fairly big extended family nearby too but I still need friends), I don’t think it’s about scheduling either (I’m happy to plan things in advance). It could be assuming that we wouldn’t have things in common (although I’m from a Muslim background I do drink). In my own experience some (many?) White British are just a bit wary about ‘different’ people not necessarily in a racist way but maybe they just find it a bit daunting because they don’t have non-white friends?

@Heruka at the toddler groups it’s not smiling/looking my way, never had a white British woman come and sit next to me and say hello but had several minority (mostly black) women do this, when I try to make an effort I don’t feel that they make much effort back and it’s not that they are reserved because I have seen them being friendly with other white women.

" go out of my way to speak to people from ethnic minorities at toddler groups etc, both because I hate that this is the reality, don’t want people feeling marginalised, and I hate the lack of diversity in my area"

I find this really quite strange. Targeting ethnic minorities on purpose so you can have a more diverse friendship group.

It seems alien to me but I think there is an uncertainty. I met people at uni who had only been around White British & then their jobs & areas they move too would be primarily the same so they don't have the opportunity to mix. I'm in London which is famous for diversity but nowadays that diversity can be dramatically different depending on where you actually live.

"Things here I think have to be arranged and planned in advance on a mutually agreeable date/time or Brits just evaporate with the shock of the spontaneity 😬 maybe friendships form out of this need for planning - WhatsApp groups need to be made, a date needs to be agreed etc, then the one hour meetup for coffee can be put in the diary (lol). There’s not much wiggle room for inviting or including new people. I’ve found this to be the case at a lot of workplaces and in every day life."

I think there's a town v country difference when it comes to things like "popping in" and I have to say that the giving warning in advance is a thing I would mainly do for people with children. They're the ones who seem to have complicated schedules. Maybe OP should be friends with some childless people as they'd be more available, although not be able to provide playmates for her children, of course.

I hear you OP - same background- and I feel the same since moving to an area which majorly lacks any diversity (to the point that I get quite excited if I see a non-white person). Whereas previously my ethnicity didn't factor in my thoughts at all, I have now become quite paranoid. Whilst I know that it is a difficult time and there have been many covid avoidance measures in place, I have found trying to make "friends" for both me and my daughter quite difficult. So, I'm interested to see what posters suggest too.

"I am white with 1 English parent but was not born or raised in UK but I did attend uni in UK. I found at uni i got along really well with all the other immigrants (didn't really matter what race) and not so much with the British born (again didn't matter race so much)... it just seemed like the immigrants didn't have established social groups so were easier to make friends with."

This would make sense at a workplace, but a uni? Everyone is far away from childhood friends and family and starting again at uni.

@mackers1 I know what you mean. I remember DH pointing out when Asian people that would pass us by on a walk would stare at us and we both thought it was strange. I now find myself doing the same thing!

@Gwenhwyfar

"I am white with 1 English parent but was not born or raised in UK but I did attend uni in UK. I found at uni i got along really well with all the other immigrants (didn't really matter what race) and not so much with the British born (again didn't matter race so much)... it just seemed like the immigrants didn't have established social groups so were easier to make friends with."

This would make sense at a workplace, but a uni? Everyone is far away from childhood friends and family and starting again at uni.

In the program I did... I think only 1 or 2 british kids lived on campus, everyone else was living with their family. Maybe it depends what uni and program you go to.

" I think only 1 or 2 british kids lived on campus, everyone else was living with their family. Maybe it depends what uni and program you go to."

This is not the norm AT ALL.

I recognize a lot of what you're talking about OP. I've been in the 'outsider' parent fringe and yeah, it can be hard to know what to do.

I sadly don't have much advice, though as my kids have gotten older, the less 'mum friends' have felt like a thing I should have.