Friendship/being an ethnic minority

[asianmumof2]

I’m British born and off South Asian origin. I remember growing up at school and at university that ethnic minorities/non white people would tend to group together when it came to friendship groups. I’ve found it be the same as an adult at baby groups where white British women group together and the only people I’ve found to be friendly with me are other ‘outsiders’ eg the odd black, chinese, european woman etc. I guess it’s understandable that people stick with what’s familiar, there are shared cultures/values/experiences etc so I’m not begrudging anyone here.

Due to circumstances a lot of my friendships have fizzled out and I’d like to make new friends (probably mum friends given the stage I’m at in life). I don’t live in a very diverse area and I’m struggling a bit.

I know a lot of people will claim ethnicity shouldn’t matter but all my experience to date suggests that it does. I do have white british acquaintances through work, neighbours etc so it’s not a matter of not integrating. The difficulty is with developing a deeper level of friendship maybe because my heritage culture is such a big part of who I am.

Rather than denial that this happens I’d be keen to hear from anyone who understands where I am coming from and has any advice.

I've found it ENTIRELY depends on where in the UK someone lives. We are a mixed race family, and where we are now there are many minority families. We all "intermingle" - there is little issue, aside from the more religious sectors who stick to their own groups but this is also a lot down to the fact they don't speak too much English. Further inland and North we used to live, it became a lot more insular - groups stayed like with like.

People always say the Brits never drop in on each other but I just have never found that to be the case - maybe they know I always have soup.
I do think once kids come along most people have already established their friendship groups and it can be hard to get into the group and then you're slightly the outsider as they tend to have known each other since university etc.

Brits are very loyal ime which means they stick with their friends forever even if they drive each other mad. There is far less of the blowing hot and cold fairweather friendships you get elsewhere, once you're in that's it they will send you christmas cards until whoever dies first.

My advice- join something and be a host, just invite and invite and invite. Don't skimp on the booze.

"Brits are very loyal ime which means they stick with their friends forever even if they drive each other mad. There is far less of the blowing hot and cold fairweather friendships you get elsewhere,"

Not sure. Where I live now people often have the same friends since primary school. They are much more likely to live at home when they go to uni or if they do stay over, it will be only during the week. If they have to work away from their home town, they'll commute hours rather than move. I find British people to be more mobile than that and to change friendship groups through life.

"once you're in that's it they will send you christmas cards until whoever dies first."

My parents do this, but sending a Christmas card isn't necessarily friendship.

I think what I was trying to say is that it's hard to get in in the first place, but once you're in there will be a place for you for life. At least in my experience.

Op, this has really resonated with me as well. Although, I am an immigrant/expat, anyone would be hard pushed to identify that I wasn't 2/3rd gen British person of colour. I've found that making friends, pre and post kids incredibly difficult.

When I lived in London it felt easy. When I moved further up north it has proved insane to find any normal friends. Think London is so diverse and has so many expats that everyone needed friends as family wasn't near. Where I live now, everyone seems to have lots of family, and largely friends with people they went to school with.

Im also quite shy and like getting to know people on a one on one but find it difficult to strike up a conversation

Interesting that there are a few people this resonates with.

Is there anyone who does a have an outsider/minority group of friends that they haven’t met through school/university and if so would like to hear how you met these people?

I have 3 good groups of friends. I think I am prob pushy.
I joined a tennis club and there are leagues for matches, social nights where there is a bar and people are always looking to make the numbers up. Play then drink and chat. People would soon call to ask if i was coming.
I also joined a fairly shite badminton club (as in 2 quid a session and crappy school hall) the people were great and always pub after. Both are mixed. Indiv swimming and yoga classes stuff not friendly imo.( max i could get from it was a coffee after)
I threw myself birthday parties for a couple of years (twattish possibly but just wanted a big bash as am single parent) Im always having barbecues, i support my kid playing sport and have touchline mum and dad friends.

I operate a house that everyone can come back to.
My kid had a fuck tonne of sleepovers and the other parents used to come and drink coffee and laugh at the fortresses.
As the outsider the onus is on you to make the effort.(i am foreign and initially was quite embarrassed by my English and couldnt do in jokes based on culture) Be brave. Do not imagine people in real life are as neurotic and judgemental as MNers (I love MNers but you know what I mean)

DH agrees - he's not British-born and says he finds it much easier to talk to/be friends with people who aren't British, maybe because growing up elsewhere then coming here is a shared experience. Having said that, most of our UK-based friends are British, because we live in a very un-diverse area and met people through kids stuff.

It's the same for me OP except my dad is white English and my mum is from Caribbean and I am completely English in culture but am not white. Everything about the way I was raised is 'typical' English. Old English as well as older people always looking after me too. So it's not a cultural thing for me that's stopping quite people making friends, i think it's a race thing.

I agree it depends where you live. I think its the same approach as overcoming suburban apathy- pick something that interests you where you are likely to meet the kind of people you want to meet and stick with it for a while. What are your interests op? I've done cycling, badminton, running a book club, going to cinema/theatre meetups.

I came across this the other day: www.bghuk.com/

“ pick something that interests you where you are likely to meet the kind of people you want to meet”

The finding an interest where I’m likely to meet the kind of people I want to meet is where I’m struggling. The interest based groups I’ve tried are not diverse at all. Also now I have very young children it’s harder to participate in lots of stuff.

OP - I wonder if this is symptomatic of the area you live in?

I'm an ethnic minority - growing up (in Yorkshire - diverse but quite segregated in the 1980s) my friends were mostly British Asian after primary school. At uni (Cambridge in the 1990s - not very diverse), most (but not all) of my friends were British Asian.

But then everything changed when I moved to London. I made friends based on shared interests and ethnicity seemed to matter less to everyone. That continued when I had a child and the vast majority of my friends (both from before and after children) are White British.
I haven't had your experience I'm afraid, haven't felt excluded on basis of ethnicity.

As another poster said, London is diverse (ethnically) and also benefits from lots of people having left their home areas, so they're not all hanging out with school friends/family.

There are other divisions of course, mainly affluence.

I live out in the sticks. My friend is the single ethnic minority in our group and indeed nearly the only one in the area.

Kids going to school was the key though - before that she met lots of people but wasn’t as close as you weren’t in and out of everyone’s houses with play dates etc. Took about 4 years to reach that really relaxed point where we do holidays, but the frequent socialising part was within the first year.

The popping in thing is a weird one though - my house is rarely ‘guest level’ tidy unless I’ve had a bit of notice, so I get really uncomfortable with pop ins. I’m fine with my best friend from uni seeing it ‘normal’ as we lived together in total chaos. But anyone else and I feel uncomfortable! I include most family members in that though so it’s not a ‘newness’ of friend thing.

I wonder if it varies depending on your area. I grow up in a town with a real mix, so it was totally normal to have a more diverse friendship group. Then I moved somewhere a lot less diverse (nb. that wasn't my reason for moving) and people really stick to their separate groups. I was surprised when a white neighbour told me she hadn't spoken to an Indian family who'd moved in because she assumed she had nothing in common with them, I had to point out that she'd happily made friends with me and DH when we had very little, aside from our skin colour and language, in common. Not spending time around different people from different cultures clearly leads to weird ideas.

I feel the same. I am from a mixed European background and have never been able to have deep long term friendships with Brits even though I went to boarding school here.

Also, my last name puts me in the eastern European bucket so even though I work in a very senior job, by default I am mistaken for uneducated cleaner etc or dismissed as a gold digger by a lot of people. I feel like I have to do a lot to prove myself worthy of friendships.

I’m hoping once school starts things will be different. There are a few fairly diverse prep schools that we have our eye on. The local state schools are not diverse at all (in terms of ethnicity). I know that might seem strange!

It’s the suburb of London that I’m in that’s just not diverse. I think central London (where I work) is a lot better in that respect.

@Heruka you sound lovely, and I wish I'd come across more open minded people like you in life! As an ethnic minority living in a very white English area that is not at all diverse, my experience with trying to befriend English people has been very negative and unsuccessful, its like pulling teeth. Unfortunately 99% of white British women and mums at these play groups I've met and through my kids school don't want to know me. I've been excluded, and made to feel like an absolute outcast, and this is in spite of me putting in the effort to say hello, smile etc. They will smile and say hi back, but that's about as far as it goes, then they'll actively avoid me or blank me next time we run into each other. I've given up now. I recently posted on another thread on here about rural racism. I live in a working class mining town up north, which is not friendly to outsiders/minority groups. Its nice to see that kind and welcoming people still do exist, though you are definitely not in the majority. x

I know this thread is 2 years old, but was just passing by OP to say that I could have written your post, I am also of South Asian origin with 2 kids, and live in a very white working class town with very few ethnic minorities. Majority of folks around here don't like outsiders/immigrants and they make sure that we know it! I've given up trying to befriend other school mums or other English women I meet locally at kids activities. They are just not open to acquaintanceships or friendships, in spite of me making a bit of effort and being friendly and easy to talk to, it only goes so far as a conversation or a few and that's it. I've noticed nearly all the very few ethnic minority mums that I see stick with their own ethnic group. Just commenting to say I feel your pain. I agree with a previous poster above that the more North you go, people are insular and stick with their own like for like. It has certainly proven to be the case in my town.

Everything you’ve described has been my experience. I have made a few friends who are white British but the overwhelming amount have been from other backgrounds. It has put me off living here.

@Wisteria29 same here. I've given up trying to befriend white British people in my area, and its one of the reasons I absolutely cannot stand where I live, due to the local people's very small minded, insular mentalities. I'm looking forward to moving somewhere more diverse with more normal people that don't judge me based on my skin colour.

Old thread but just wanted to add in case anyone reads it in the future that I can also really relate to this. I had the same experience at school, university, baby groups, school gates. The ethnic minorities generally tend to stick together and I often had experiences where I felt like I was being ignored by white British women. I don’t think it was necessarily malicious but I think sometimes people feel uncomfortable around what they don’t know and find it hard to relate. I live in a London suburb so there is some diversity around but I just don’t how to go about meeting people as the hobby groups eg book club, walking group etc are not very diverse.