How to help very ill alcohol dependant relative in awkward and delicate situation.

[Brighterblighter]

I have a relative who I feel will drink themselves to death soon, I can't see how they can sustain the volume of alcohol they drink for much longer.
The person is constantly at war with themselves from putting up with and asked to put up with dreadful behaviour from siblings to keep the peace e and almost used by well meaning parents to support other siblings with issues.. The dad is well meaning but in cloud cukoo land and can't understand the dynamics of what goes on..

I can't see a way through to help this person... If you said they had a smudge of mascara that would set them off on a massive rant.. And they would be mortally offended. The whole family radiates around this wealthy sibling who dominates and is cruel to other family members.

This dominating sibling who has been Vile to me has reached out about this person on a separate issue.

I want to say to them... Get and pay for urgent help now but that's also then colluding with this person whose damaged the siblings mental health over the years! But they are probably the only person in a position to pay and possibly instigate support... But its like the last person to trust with such a delicate operation at the same time.

If it was in my hands I'd say this person needs instant admittance to somewhere like the priory etc. This family has recently lost a sibling /daughter...

You can't fix an alcohol dependent person. They have to fix themselves. Any inpatient treatment without them wanting to stop drinking would be futile.

The alcohol dependency may have been caused by them self-medicating due to their circumstances, but ultimately they still have to choose to stop drinking and find another way to cope with their difficult life. In all probability they will see doing this very difficult work as too hard. They probably don't want to stop drinking.

I know this is hard and human instinct is to do something, but just to warn you that you should be realistic.

Thanks, the problem is time.
I don't think the person has time on their phone side and is Squirreled away drinking for much of the week.. Several bottles of wine in one of go.

I'm not judging them at all and there are so many things that have happened to the person that would drive anyone to drink let alone everything that happens to her.. But the clock is ticking the level of drink is not sustainable. I don't think they have much time left. M

This is very sad, but unfortunately they have to want to change. You can't force them. All you can do is tell them you are there and you will support them (if you want to and have capacity to do so) if and when they decide to try and get sober. That really is all you can do.

On a practical note, if they are at end stage alcoholism, you can also have a frank discussion to ensure they have an up to date Will and any wishes about end of life care, funeral etc are known.

Its unlikely that the dominating sibling actually wants to help. Its much more likely that they are trying to recruit you to get you on their side. You know the family is toxic so don't get involved with them.

The only thing you can do for your alcoholic friend is to encourage them to leave the abusive situation. They cant stop abusers being abusive, they cant fix the broken family. they can stop being the family scapegoat.
That means going no contact and hopefully, then getting therapy.

If you google the 'karpman drama triangle' it explains the dynamic in many abusive situations, and also alcoholism.

I can't really figure out what's going on here, but unless and until the alcoholic actively wants to stop drinking, you could check them into the Priory yourself with a lottery win and it would do absolutely nothing. Nobody can help an alcoholic who doesn't want to stop drinking.

I think your only real role in this situation is to maintain your own boundaries and protect yourself.

Another sibling died recently which has pushed this latest descent and it was already bad.
Due to this the toxic but rich sibling might help.

I think intervention is needed because of the tradgey of the lost sibling... If she can get help for that I think she would accept it but simultaneously needs to be somewhere to stop drinking.
But it was bad before the loss of the sibling.

And so what if they did? Do you really think your alcoholic sibling would go meekly off to the Priory, even if the toxic but rich sibling somehow miraculously changed into a completely different person and offered the money up freely, indefinitely, with no strings? Which they won't? (And you'd have to be very, very rich indeed to confidently write a blank cheque to the Priory.) Has the alcoholic stated a desire to get clean? Are they engaging with GP and/or local alcohol services alreazy? What makes you think they'll do inpatient rehab, if they aren't already making efforts to get dry?

OP I really hope the alcoholic finds some motivation and sobers up, but I don't think this theoretical plan is a goer.

But alcoholism isn't a problem that can be fixed with money. Sure, sibling could fund a fortnight, six weeks, six months in The Priory, but if the alcoholic doesn't want to stop drinking then at best they'll drink again as soon as they get out, at worse they refuse to go or discharge themselves.

You'd also maybe be surprised how long someone can carry on drinking huge amounts. Generally alcohol takes a long, long time to kill you (accidents aside).

1. person, call her Lucy, has for twenty years had issues with her own boundaries and family putting on her to support other family, often by phone as abroad but when she has seen her them she's had to endure out of control behaviour.. Not necessarily to her but she's then had to hide and tidy things up to cover up for her parents return.
2. her parents seem to worship the toxic sibling who weilds power through money, nice houses etc.. Events they enjoy nice Xmas.they are still lovely to Lucy though and not cruel ect Lucy spends loads of time with her them.
3. tragic events have affected Lucy, she's always been heavy drinker but this latest ttagdy, the loss of a sibling in mid 50s has pushed her over the edge
4. the drinking can go from early evening through the night until well into the next morning.. For years.. But now it's got even more regularly and even worse, Lucy doesn't work.
5. maybe the proriy is wrong suggestion but I do feel if a Councillor was provided... Lucy might go for grief counselling? But the only person who could arrange and pay is rich sibling. Toxic as she is... She's lost one sister already...

I don't know whether to say to toxic sibling.. Book grief counselling or even take her on the holiday! Anything to break this current rut...

OP, I really do sympathise. I'm sorry for the loss of your sibling/family member and that you're watching another descend into possibly terminal alcoholism. That must be terribly, terribly hard.

That said, I think you are succumbing to magical thinking a bit in thinking the rich sibling's money can somehow fix this. Let's say RichSib booked grief counselling for this currently non-functional, constantly binging alcoholic. Do you think they'd go? Even if they wanted to, do they have it together enough to show up repeatedly? I'd think no. Same with the holiday. Lucy would spend it binging, just in brand new surroundings. Nothing will change Lucy's behaviour unless Lucy wants to change. Does she? Has anyone talked to her about it lately?

The person who genuinely might benefit from grief counselling, or maybe Al-Anon for families and loved ones of alcoholics, is you. You need support too, and to understand that you cannot cause, control or cure Lucy's drinking.

I think you have to try. The chances are sadly not high that things will work out, but I think you have to try. Have you talked to Lucy about her drinking? Would she be willing to accept help ? If she is at least willing to try then maybe it's worth talking to Toxic Relative - maybe TR would even be willing to give you the money to arrange inpatient treatment if they care enough, so that Lucy doesn't have to deal with them - but as everyone has said, only Lucy can do this herself and she needs to have or find the will to stop.

Very touchy, won't accept anything about drinking or anything gets very defensive...

But beautifully sweet person... There maybe another relative who could suggest family support... But I think they all know what the answer is and maybe they don't want to pay for it...

OP you need to back off.

This person has not asked for your help. Until they do, you cannot do anything.

Going to their toxic family member will be another betrayal.

Just stop.

There really is nothing you can do unless they accept they have a problem :( if they're touchy and defensive, they know it already but they're not ready to acknowledge it.

I'm sorry. They sound like they are a lovely person, and you're clearly very fond of them.

Honestly, there is no point in anybody, whether toxic or not, paying for things like counselling when what the alcoholic needs is an inpatient hospital detoxification before a residential rehabilitation programme and ongoing psychiatric support. And none of that works when the alcoholic is not desperate to stop drinking themselves.

That's a hell of a lot of money to suggest that anybody spends, never mind when they are already suffering from a shock bereavement - the thought of their attempt to help save another sibling lasting just as long as the first moment they're unsupervised (which is what happens with many if not most inpatients), along with the almost inevitable demise from present damage/knocking back several bottles when they have lost tolerance would be a further trauma.

Don't encourage her to see this sibling as the one she could save. She can't. Don't give her false hope.

I'm no expert in this level of problem but I've certainly had experience of problem drinkers and people's who abuse alcohol.

This is off the the the scale, anti depressants as well I can't understand how her body can process the volume and without decent food etc as well.

Re backing off, I've not said or done anything at all yet because I know she feels picked on and feels like she has no control etc.
It's an impossible situation but I can't see how she can sustain this and with no one offering help or having any stragety at all.. Lets say she does get to that rock bottom moment..

What then?
No one has reached out to say.. We will help when your ready?

I've had this with a very close friend. The last time I saw her it upset me so much I decided that was the last time.

I did exactly what you've just said - messaged her to say I was very very worried about her, suggested I thought she needed to go to AA and said I would do anything I could to help her if she wanted it.

Then I backed away and have t heard anything from her since. From what little I can pick up on the grapevine she got really really bad for a while but now seems to be in a period of holding it together - for now.

But most importantly I protected my mental health and boundaries. There was literally nothing else I could do.

Look at the Karpman Drama Triangle - Victim, Persecutor, Rescuer.;
she is in the role of the Victim.
the family is currently playing the role of the Persecutor.
you feel as if you want to be the Rescuer.

But you can't rescue her. She would perceive your attempts to help as interference, and you would become the Persecutor.
She would react and lash out, putting you into the role of Victim, and her in the role of Persecutor...
and you all keep on going round and round.

The problem is not her drinking. The problem is that her family treat her badly. Her drinking is the symptom.

@Thelnebriati

I agree, but I know I can't rescue her, I also live a long way away.

But unless her family do say something how will she know they will offer to help?

They mean well but seem emeshed and also treat her like a child.. I think if someone said, I love you I care about you.. If you want too, I'll pay for treatment... Tell people your on holiday.. It's yours..

She would know there is a way out...

Unfortunately the "rich" sibling can not save their sibling.
The alcohol dependent sibling needs to want the help. If they were rich enough and the sibling wanted it enough, even then they are not morally obliged to help.

Tartan yes, I don't think the rich sibling is the route to go down it would be seen as a betrayal

However since the rich sibling has caused endless problems... And hurt her ds endless times even though she wouldn't see it I do think she should pay from a moral perspective.

No one has offered help yet, and unfortunately her dp are quite elderly now and frail themselves esp after losing a dd already.

She does quite a bit of caring for them already and wouldn't ask them for help and they compound issues...
It's such a frustrating situation.

They have to want to change. Nothing you have said indicates this is the case.

I think you have to speak to her. It's very hard to stand back but sometimes there's a danger that deepdown someone feels that no one even notices. Even if she rejects your help, which she probably will, just reaching out will tell her that someone cares.