Should I be offended at Jewish jokes?

[DuchessOfDisaster]

Two of my FB friends run a comedy page - one of them is a professional comedian. Old school type, mother in law jokes and so on. One of them regularly posts Jewish jokes. There are never any racist, sexist, homophobic or ableist jokes or jokes about Muslims. But he posts Jewish jokes, often about Jewish mums, Jews being mean and tight, etc. I have to be honest - some of them are funny though I don't comment nor call him out. I am Jewish. Am I letting the side down?? I actually don't feel offended. I don't really care much. But should I? As one of those tiresome overused social media phrases goes "you are part of the problem" Am I?

I did laugh at Friday Night Dinner (and the Kumars).

No doubt certain things in both went over my head but the characters were presented as real people. In FND I didn't feel I was laughing at a Jewish family but at the behaviour of individuals in a family that happened to be Jewish. And yes, I could recognise my own family/friends (and myself) in some of the characters.

A single joke is rather different though, I think, because you are not being invited to laugh at Jackie or Martin, but at a stereotype.

@ErrolTheDragon

You don't have to be personally 'offended' to know when something is wrong.

Jokes about the supposed meanness of Jewish people are wrong. Just think about the history of it. The stereotype was established by the time Shakespeare was writing The Merchant of Venice. Think about it - the first place with a ghetto. The Jews were allowed, maybe encouraged to live there (locked in at night) because they were permitted to lend money at interest - vital for the mercantile Venetians but disallowed for Christians. Think about it. The stereotype of 'meanness' arose because they were pushed towards being moneylenders and despised for doing it. And persecuted.
Seriously not ok.

You're absolutely correct about the origins of the word 'ghetto' and the money-grubbing stereotype.

TBI don't recall ever hearing Jews make self-referential 'jokes' about money-grubbing. The only time that contre up in our humour is in reference to anti-Semitic stereotypes.

Yes I think this is offensive and not acceptable. I don't agree that there is anything in common between this and Friday night dinner, which is using a Jewish family as a backdrop for funny situations it is not making negative stereotypes or othering Jewish people.

Are you sure they're not Jewish?
I don't look Jewish in the stereotypical way.
They can be Greek/ English AND Jewish ?

Of course it’s offensive. I bloody hate the constant, Jews have all the money type jokes. How can anyone think this is acceptable?

@BrilliantBetty

Are you sure they're not Jewish? I don't look Jewish in the stereotypical way. They can be Greek/ English AND Jewish ?

I don't see how that matters re 'jokes' about meanness.

I don't see how that matters re 'jokes' about meanness

Well as many posters here have said, If a joke is made by someone poking fun at there own culture it's different to someone from outside that culture making a joke about it.

It's offensive. Why do they only pick on Jewish people? That suggests they know what they're doing is wrong but don't mind doing it to Jewish people.

Please read David Baddiel’s “Jews don’t count”. I think you’d be in no doubt that these jokes are anti Semitic and racist after reading that book.

It is the difference between someone within a culture gently mocking its idiosyncrasies and an outsider reinforcing hateful stereotypes.

Only Jews can tell Jewish jokes, preferably to other Jews.

I'm Jewish myself.

Hearing non-Jews make jokes about us is not pleasant.

I think Jewish jokes are only funny if they’re cracked by Jewish people. I’d find it very dodgy otherwise.

Jews being ‘right’ is a nasty old trope, too. It wouldn’t make me laugh.

tight

Not Jewish btw

@BrilliantBetty

I don't see how that matters re 'jokes' about meanness

Well as many posters here have said, If a joke is made by someone poking fun at there own culture it's different to someone from outside that culture making a joke about it.

That logic only works if it's something that actually is part of their culture though. Not if it's a nasty stereotype that been used in the worst sorts of persecution for centuries.

I mean, I don't find women participating in misogynistic 'banter' remotely more acceptable than men doing it.

Exactly, Errol.

Some posters on this thread say it's ok. Others say it isn't. Clearly it's not clear.

I hate any comment/joke about Jews being mean no matter who says it...when I first heard about this stereotype as a child I remember feeling so confused because my family are the most generous people you could ever meet. It's a horrible nasty stereotype. I hate it.

I don't mind other Jews making jokes about Jewish mothers or other light-hearted more affectionate stuff.

It’s not really about being offended. You can be offended by all sorts of things and it’s just too bad.

The fact is these ‘jokes’ are unacceptable, harmful and contribute to a toxic anti-Semitic culture.

No offence needs to be felt for this behaviour to be wrong.

@Oblomov21

Some posters on this thread say it's ok. Others say it isn't. Clearly it's not clear.

Posts about overt racism in MN often attract people who say it’s fine, bemoan the ‘professionally offended’ and complain that ‘you can’t say anything these days’. These people are not a sign that the issue lacks clarity.

Anti-semtiisn is no different.

@Oblomov21

Some posters on this thread say it's ok. Others say it isn't. Clearly it's not clear.

Posters saying it's okay are wrong. It is contributing to anti-semitism and it should be called out.

There's a guy on YouTube ( Sebastian something) who is American with Italian parents and he's hilarious telling stories about his parents in am affectionate way . My dad is Italian and I find it funny because he's spot on . However I would absolutely cringe at those bloody dolmio puppets on the ads with the stupid accents portraying italians as eating spaghetti 24/7 . It's a bit like that , humour can tread a fine line

Oblomov21
Some posters on this thread say it's ok. Others say it isn't. Clearly it's not clear.

It’s very clear. It’s wrong. No grey line