Should I be offended at Jewish jokes?

[DuchessOfDisaster]

Two of my FB friends run a comedy page - one of them is a professional comedian. Old school type, mother in law jokes and so on. One of them regularly posts Jewish jokes. There are never any racist, sexist, homophobic or ableist jokes or jokes about Muslims. But he posts Jewish jokes, often about Jewish mums, Jews being mean and tight, etc. I have to be honest - some of them are funny though I don't comment nor call him out. I am Jewish. Am I letting the side down?? I actually don't feel offended. I don't really care much. But should I? As one of those tiresome overused social media phrases goes "you are part of the problem" Am I?

I wonder whether your friends have seen some of the great old Jewish comedians and thought “these guys are hilarious - I’ll copy them” and not thought it through at all.

WTF? Of course it’s offensive.

Facebook is a pit of hell and I think anyone still on it is an idiot

The people that run and subscribe to the groups are idiots.

I use FB to connect with anti racism and anti austerity groups. We support people that have been the victims of abuse, we help you people who are struggling financially, so their families can eat.

Facebook can be a force for good. It's what you choose to make of it.

(Not sure where the 'you' came from!)

I'm glad I posted about this. I was feeling uncomfortable, and uncomfortable about the fact that I wasn't bothered about the jokes. Thank you for all your comments.

The jokes you describe are racist. What would you think of them if they were said about people from another ethnic minority. I’m offended and I haven’t read them.

TBH any Jewish jokes I’ve heard have usually been told by Jews. An Israeli friend I had when a student had an endless fund of hilarious ones.

Jewish jokes made by anyone else def. not Ok, ditto jokes about any ethnic group or community, when told by someone else.

It is downright offensive.

I have no idea how the politics of these things are supposed to work, any more.

Disabled people (watch paralympic coverage) get to make jokes about crips-- but my post here will probably be deleted for simply writing the word.

Black people can use the N-word -- I can't even spell it out without upsetting all and sundry.

I'm not saying what's write or wrong. I don't know how I'm supposed to know. Honestly I just go sheeple. Laugh if it was funny & I won't upset anyone present. Mostly avoid.

I find it hard not to be offended by every use of N-word in every context, but not sure if that response is 'allowed' since I'm white. Minefield.

You don't have to be hurt or offended for it to be racist.

You don't have to be offended but you should have a very good idea of what is/isn't offensive.

OP, I can't speak for you but for me, I started feeling uncomfortable about it when I realised that it's the only example of this kind of behaviour that goes largely unchecked - which in itself is a symptom of the problem.

The fact that antisemitic comments are so normalised that we don't recognise them as racist - that's the issue.

Same as looking back at some of the behaviour towards women that was totally normal pre-Me Too is shocking now, but st the time people were,'t offended because it was considered normal.

As PPs have said, you don't have to force personal offense, but it might be worh looking at why it doesn't feel offensive.

Wow - typos galore. Sorry!

You can't force being offended. But you can see it's wrong and that's enough.

I think it needs calling out and, at the least flagging to FB as a racist post.

Jewish people seem to be the last "acceptable" bastion of the 1970s racist comedians. It's vile.

I say this as someone who isn't Jewish but has had one foot in the local Jewish community for many years and heard so many awful stories of abuse and of casual racism.

@SomethingNastyInTheBallPool

Jewish people telling Jewish jokes = fine. Non-Jews joking about Jews being mean = not fine at all.

I agree with this.

But what I'm not sure about is whether it would be ok for someone who isn't Jewish (eg me) to laugh at a Jewish joke told by a Jewish person.

I would still feel uncomfortable about doing that I think

There are never any racist, sexist, homophobic or ableist jokes or jokes about Muslims.

Yes there are.

But he posts Jewish jokes

He posts racist 'jokes'.

@Tealightsandd

There are never any racist, sexist, homophobic or ableist jokes or jokes about Muslims.

Yes there are.

But he posts Jewish jokes

He posts racist 'jokes'.

OP is saying her friend doesn't make jokes about Muslims, not that jokes about Muslims don't exist.

@girlmom21

I was referring to the racist 'jokes' about Jewish people.

I'm Jewish and fairly relaxed about these things on the whole, but I think only Jews should really tell jokes about negative Jewish stereotypes, it's a bit off for others to do it.

But what I'm not sure about is whether it would be ok for someone who isn't Jewish (eg me) to laugh at a Jewish joke told by a Jewish person.

You didn't laugh at Friday Night Dinner? Nor (if you're old enough ) at Goodness Gracious Me or The Kumars? The genius of those comedies was that everyone could recognise their own families and friends in them, regardless of their own religion or nationality. As a Jew I could also appreciate all the little in-jokes and nuances in FND that probably went over the heads of non-Jews watching and enjoying, just as I have no doubt I missed the little in-jokes and nuances in GGM and The Kumars.

I'm Jewish and I would be offended by this. I think you should be as a a Jew but if you're not you're not

@lljkk

I have no idea how the politics of these things are supposed to work, any more.

Disabled people (watch paralympic coverage) get to make jokes about crips-- but my post here will probably be deleted for simply writing the word.

Black people can use the N-word -- I can't even spell it out without upsetting all and sundry.

I'm not saying what's write or wrong. I don't know how I'm supposed to know. Honestly I just go sheeple. Laugh if it was funny & I won't upset anyone present. Mostly avoid.

I find it hard not to be offended by every use of N-word in every context, but not sure if that response is 'allowed' since I'm white. Minefield.

Why are you bringing Black people up? The OP was talking about Jewish people. You sound like you want to make an issue, where there is not one. People can describe themselves how they wish to. Other people outside of those groups cannot. HTH.

People can describe themselves how they wish to

I've tried that & people said they were offended by what I said about people like me.

Look at the people on here saying they would be offended in OP's situation.
Whatever the principles might be, not so simple.

Fireworks will fly if a person with LDs tries to tell self-referential jokes using the R-word.

Just not simple.

^
But what I'm not sure about is whether it would be ok for someone who isn't Jewish (eg me) to laugh at a Jewish joke told by a Jewish person. ^

@Fifthtimelucky I think it depends on the joke. An affectionate joke about Jewish life is one thing. A joke about meanness is another altogether. Though I think those jokes tend to be told by non-Jews.

You don't have to be personally 'offended' to know when something is wrong.

Jokes about the supposed meanness of Jewish people are wrong. Just think about the history of it. The stereotype was established by the time Shakespeare was writing The Merchant of Venice. Think about it - the first place with a ghetto. The Jews were allowed, maybe encouraged to live there (locked in at night) because they were permitted to lend money at interest - vital for the mercantile Venetians but disallowed for Christians. Think about it. The stereotype of 'meanness' arose because they were pushed towards being moneylenders and despised for doing it. And persecuted.
Seriously not ok.