Is it impossible to get a NHS dentist in 2021?

[onlychildhamster]

I have to go private to get my teeth sorted. No dentists in my area seem to be taking on NHS patients. So I got quoted £460 for a root canal and £140 for a filling and also £595 for a porcelain crown.

What happens to people who can't afford it. It's quite different from 2018 when I managed to get a NHS dentist to see me on the same day, wasn't even registered beforehand!

@bonzo77 my problem isn't so much that I have to pay. I am fine with paying as we have the money. What I am concerned about is having no NHS /government alternative. Private practices are there to make money and if an essential service is left to the private market, that is not good for anyone.

@bonzo77 I agree with everything you say, it's incredibly frustrating isn't it.
If you need to talk to anyone, please DM me

Well what is the answer?

1. NHS funding isn't enough and leaves dentists esrnkng less than minum wage...okay so pour more funding into it which ultimately means paying more taxes to fund it.

2. get a denplan or pay privately....denplan is worthwhile as it does reduce costs if you need some expensive work in the long run. Put money aside and save for emergency dental.

Either way you end up having to pay for it, whether its through increased taxes or privately.

Its a moot point. This isn't something that's new either its been like this for years as many point out and as an individual you have to decide what your going to prioritise.

Now obviously low income families will struggle so perhaps any current NHS funding is reserve for those (means tested)

End of the day not even the NHS is free unless you never pay tax. You still pay for the NHS its judt not as much as if it was private.

Other countries pay alot more in compared to us and that is why they better healthcare. Or other countries (not talking USA) where its all private and well thats that.

We are lucky here but looks like that luck is starting to run out.

It's fine for those of us who are employed etc, but there are those on low incomes and disabled who normally would qualify for NHS dentist except that they no longer exist.

@bonzo77

Are you not salaried then?
I posted upthread that I think dentistry should be taken under direct control of the NHS and out of private practice with dentists employed directly by the NHS and paid a salary with no incentive for 'upselling'. By this I don't mean the NHS should go round buying up existing dental practices, I mean they should set up new ones. By the sound of it dentists like you would want to join. You'd be earning a good salary focusing only on looking after peoples teeth and health. Also the skills shortage need addressing by investing in training. This solution might take a generation to sort the problem because of the time scales to grow services, but at least it would then sort the problem. From what you say, it sounds like practice owners are growing rich, while ordinary dentists are struggling. Why can't dentists just be dentists? Why should they have to be business people to make a living?

My dentist is private but I have denplan which is about £25pm. Was NHS but I missed an appointment (didn't get a reminder) and was booted off the NHS list

Been trying for nine months to get my baby registered and yet. DH, DS & I are all at the same practice and they just aren't taking anyone on, nor are any other practices locally. I know she doesn't need a dentist yet, but it really worries me for when she does.

My plan costs £20 a month and includes two check ups and two hygienist visits per year, plus 10% off other treatment. 10% off £1000 is still a lot of money, which is why I have to keep the crowns I have, that are past their sell by date.

DD, as an adult, had to have a fractured tooth with an infection underneath out (due to a fall), under general anaesthetic. The dentist said to me afterwards:

"It was lovely to see inside someone's mouth with beautiful teeth, instead of children with a mouthful of decay, like I usually see!"

(DD has never had a filling, and her teeth are straight after NHS orthodontic work)

Ours are taking on new patients. There is a long wait for appointments I had to wait 2 months for an emergency appointment when my tooth broke in half. Then another six weeks for the actual treatment. The special needs dentist isn’t seeing still unless emergency my daughter has a huge hole in her tooth so I’ve had to register with my dentist and have to wait until October to be seen and hope she even lets them look.

@Kendodd on paper I am not salaried. In actual fact I have a quota of nhs treatment and that has a “value”. I get that “value” per 12 months. At the moment I get 1/12 of it each month, largely because my practice owner is ok, and I’m very conscientious about doing my job. In the past it was a bit more complicated than that. From this is deducted my lab bills (yes, the practice and I cover the lab cost of your nhs crowns and dentures), my superannuation and some other bits. On top I get 50% of my private takings, less related lab bills (most months that’s £100 or so). I’m then responsible for paying my own tax and NI, insurance and GDC registration. Those last two account for 10% of my pre tax income (though are tax deductible). Thus is very standard for non-practice owners in mixed practice. I’m possibly on a slightly better deal than some as I’m very experienced (unusual as most dentists my age are in private practice) and my contact is historical, made with the previous practice owner who was a bit old fashioned.

I have ongoing oral health problems due to a my cleft. I've had a private dentist since I was 15 because after the NHS moved my teeth around the tooth they proposed to use as my front teeth were very very small and needed caps and they were considered 'cosmetic'. My parents paid £400 a piece and we were very poor. Yet, they had no choice to pay. I live in fear of them falling out or anything breaking down. My palate has moved and it has taken so long to be sorted.

Oral health is much more than 'nice teeth' as many point out. We need our teeth to eat healthy food and also to speak clearly.

You'd also be surprised that my NHS orthodontic treatment/cleft support and treatment is still within the children's department because 'we don't see many adults'. There are NO services specifically for adults who still need treatment. Again, I hear 'cosmetic' a lot. Private cosmetic surgeons won't touch me due to complexity. Happily, I am within the system and thanks to my legwork I have the NHS talking to my dentist, albeit slowly.

Rant over. OP have you tried joining a private practice on denplan.

I missed my last checkup as it was right at lockdown. I had tooth/gum issues and managed to get an on the day emergency appt last week, when I was there they said to make an appt for my regular dentist for a check up as they were only able to look at the issue I presented with.

Next available appt 2nd DECEMBER! 😮

@bonzo77
What you're saying echoes what I've read other people on here saying. But a friend of mine lives with a dentist from the EU who used to work here but moved to the continent about 5 years ago. (Not Brexit related.) He used to work 3 days a week when he first arrived, and he told me he was paid £60,000. He was contracted to treat a certain number of patients to get that much so maybe he worked longer days? But he didn't do nights or weekends. But he couldn't get private practice with the surgery he was with so he chose to move because he found nhs work quite limiting.
Does that sound familiar or do you think he was exaggerating? I used to wonder where his money went? 🤔 He definitely wasn't a partner.

When we moved last year I couldn't get my family into an nhs dentist. One said we could be put on a waiting list (last year) and when I had a dental emergency recently and called them they said that we hadn't moved on the list and they couldn't see me as an emergency as I wasn't registered. I ended up going private where I havereceived great care. I've also signed up to denplan for £12.50pm. The biggest bonus is that as I'm a fee paying patient they will see my dc as 'nhs' patients. I was really worried as my dc needs braces and I was panicking about how she would get them if nobody sees her.

As I work I would've had to pay for my treatment even if it were nhs but I don't know what the price difference is. Luckily I can afford to pay anyhow, but it's not cheap.

When we moved house I called every dentist in a 15 mile radius. Finally found one that put us on the waiting list as NHS patients in February. I've just this week been able to book us in for appointments, scheduled for their next availability - in November! Feeling very lucky that we managed to get on a list at all.

@NothingEverChangesButTheShoes I have to sort out my teeth asap so would be handing over £600 this Saturday. I will get denplan after this.

It's not that I have a problem paying, I have the money to pay as my husband and I have always saved at least 25% of our income. It's the fact that I don't have any option but private dental care. Yes today I can pay £600, £2k, £3k, maybe even £8k. But what if it's £20k in 10 years due to inflation. Or £100 per month dental insurance premiums in future. There is no ceiling to private dental care costs. At least when there is a government dental system, I knew the charges would be fairly reasonable and I could use it concurrently with private healthcare to reduce my costs.

Of course this doesn't even include the people who can't afford dental care now that there is so little NHS dental care.

Does that sound familiar or do you think he was exaggerating? I used to wonder where his money went? 🤔 He definitely wasn't a partner.

Our dentist told us they went private, because the NHS went over to paying for a block of work. I don't know the actual figures, but say the NHS contracted for 10,000 fillings pa, and they ended up doing 12,000 because that was what the patients needed, they didn't get paid for the extra 2,000. Also, they were constrained by the NHS fees, so they could not do work of the quality they wanted to do. They charge privately a bit more than the NHS, but can do work up to the standard they think is good enough.

Personally I find being private far more ethical and rewarding.
Ethical because the nhs contract is a joke. It tells patients they are entitled to all sorts- chrome dentures and hygiene appointments spring to mind- but doesn’t fund them. So if patients wanted those things I was effectively paying for it myself! Bonkers. Same with high needs patients, if they needed a lot of work I was doing most of it for free.
Privately I am fee per item so if a patient has looked after their teeth, they pay little. If they haven’t then they pay to put things right, not me. I can give all appropriate options and they decide based on their own circumstances.
Rewarding because I work with excellent support staff in nice surroundings with good materials. I decide how long to spend on treatments. No need to sell, it’s easy to just do what is clinically necessary (especially at the moment!) and still have a busy book.
I work for a wonderful ethical man who I admire greatly.
Very lucky.
Basically you get what you pay for in life. Teeth are worth it!

I don't mind paying for myself, it's frustrating though to not be able to get a place for my 3 year old and and also don't offer it privately for that age. He hasn't had his teeth checked yet and I have no idea if they're alright or not, I mean we brush them and they look fine but who knows.

@Peacrock

I don't mind paying for myself, it's frustrating though to not be able to get a place for my 3 year old and and also don't offer it privately for that age. He hasn't had his teeth checked yet and I have no idea if they're alright or not, I mean we brush them and they look fine but who knows.

Won't they fall out anyway to make way for the adult teeth so as long as there is no delay does it really matter that much?

Decay not delay

DH and I haven’t had a check up in 2 years although we are registered with an NHS dentist.

My adult DD had to ring 10 practices where she lives to get seen even privately. She has had to find over £500 to get two teeth removed and comply with their requirement to have a hygienist appointment, if she wanted to save the teeth it would have been over £3,000. If she could have got fillings replaced last year it wouldn’t have come to this.

@Evenstar
"if she wanted to save the teeth it would have been over £3,000. If she could have got fillings replaced last year it wouldn’t have come to this."

This must have been so frustrating. I was shocked during the first lockdown that for people needing a filling, they were being told they be extracted rather than filled. My friend had a filling at her dentist because they were the rmergency centre for the area. They told my friend they were just sat around doing nothing and would happily do fillings,etc. Meanwhile my dental surgery, 2 miles,away from my friends, swore blind dentists were not allowed to do fillings. She told me my 65yo friend, will have musunderstood what happened to her!!! When I was waiting for root canal work just after they reopened, I was stood with an elderly lady whose front veneer / crown had fallen out a week after lockdown had started. 111 wouldn't even let it be put back in. But that if she had pain, they'd pull the tooth out. I mean how has dentists in the UK come to this. Other European countries ran full dental services during the entire lockdown and said they saw no increased covid cases associated with dental surgeries.

And don't even start me off on what's happening at vet surgeries.

Actually dental services in a lot of EU countries was effectively ceased during lockdown so it wasn’t just the UK.

Dental practices aren’t allowed to pick and choose who they take on so they can’t just take on new patients who are children/ exempt from paying. That would be discriminatory.

Over 3000 dental nurses didn’t renew their ARF this year. We’ll find out in December how many dentists have/ will do the same.

Where I work in Devon we don’t have a waiting list. for the foreseeable future we won’t be taking on new patients as we haven’t capacity. We already have a lot of unallocated patients.
Cornwall in general has a waiting time of 3 to 4 years. (It always makes me groan when the posts appear about families wanting to move to Devon/ Cornwall - they never think to consider the lack of health services).

It’s not a case of dentists being greedy it’s a case of being a very underfunded and in general ignored profession by the government. It took them long enough to work out which bracket we should be in for the vaccine. Oh and it was Tony Blair who caused it all

Associates like Banjo77 have effectively had a pay decrease of 40% in the last 10 years as we’re getting the same UDA value but our ARF, indemnities etc increase every year