Is it impossible to get a NHS dentist in 2021?

[onlychildhamster]

I have to go private to get my teeth sorted. No dentists in my area seem to be taking on NHS patients. So I got quoted £460 for a root canal and £140 for a filling and also £595 for a porcelain crown.

What happens to people who can't afford it. It's quite different from 2018 when I managed to get a NHS dentist to see me on the same day, wasn't even registered beforehand!

We drive 45 mins to our old town as we haven't been able to find one since moving, lucky to have one though so don't begrudge the drive too much!

I'm not outraged because I'm registered with a dentist. I can see how it would be annoying if you moved during the pandemic but I wouldn't have left my practise until I'd been accepted at a new one.

My dentist did root canal work in June after the first lockdown and I needed 4 appointments. The surgery is back doing checkups but it still takes them time to clean between any treatment that involves aerosol generating treatments. As a result they're not seeing as many patients as they used to, so I don't know how they'd increase their list.

No NHS dentists taking on patients in the whole of Somerset. People are travelling to Devon, Dorset and Gloucestershire just to have a check up.

I was put on a waiting list when I found out I was pregnant and have been told I will likely get an appointment in April 2022. DS will be nearly 18 months old.

The same dentist will see me on Thursday if I sign up with Denplan though.

[quote onlychildhamster]@womaninatightspot its the joy of the Barnett formula! Spending per person in scotland is 30% higher than england. But its nice that NHS dental still exists in the UK, albeit in Scotland![/quote]
Not always the case.........it can be very difficult to get a NHS Dentist in Scotland the same as England.

@MaverickDanger

No NHS dentists taking on patients in the whole of Somerset. People are travelling to Devon, Dorset and Gloucestershire just to have a check up.

I was put on a waiting list when I found out I was pregnant and have been told I will likely get an appointment in April 2022. DS will be nearly 18 months old.

The same dentist will see me on Thursday if I sign up with Denplan though.

Well, obviously. You'll always get seen sooner if you can go private. That's the point of this thread

My dentist surgery has been shut since March 2020 for both nhs and private patients. Fuckers

Thanks for pointing that out @Eorks. I absolutely hadn’t realised that was the point of the thread when adding my contribution supporting the OP’s experience

[quote onlychildhamster]@womaninatightspot its the joy of the Barnett formula! Spending per person in scotland is 30% higher than england. But its nice that NHS dental still exists in the UK, albeit in Scotland![/quote]
I do know other people in Scotland who have struggled to find an NHS dentist though. Same with schools mines is green, leafy and lovely and full of ipads but I have friends whose kids playground looks like it'd double up as a prison yard ands can't afford pencils. I do feel like there should be more equal access to services.

Well, obviously. You'll always get seen sooner if you can go private. That's the point of this thread

I am the OP, had my initial appointment today, getting treated on Saturday cos I am paying. earliest appointment offered to me was the day after tomorrow.

But I find it ridiculous there is supposed to be a NHS dental service and it seems to not exist for the vast majority of people, including children judging by this thread. Also if a family has 2 or 3 children with simultaneous teeth problems, are they expected to pay the dental costs X 3?

My lovely old nhs dentist left the surgery before Covid and when we were finally allowed back for our checkups recently our new dentist isn’t nearly as thorough. As
Others have said, barely the most reluctant check of the children’s teeth, just counting them out loud for his assistant to click the mouse on the computer. We hadn’t seen a dentist in a year and a half, I’m sure my old dentist would have given me some comments! I asked the new guy if everything was okay and he just said, “yes very good,” - I mean obviously I’m glad he didn’t say they had serious levels of decay or anything but he just wanted to get rid of us ASAP.
And dh was instructed to book a hygienist appointment, £65 for half an hour!
He did tell me though that I need all my wisdom teeth taking out
All that being said, I’m massively grateful to still have our nhs dentist spaces, I know of a few families who have never taken their dc as they can’t find a dentist to take them on.

This thread has made me dig my electric toothbrush out. I'm lucky enough to reach middle age without so much as a filling. But I need to not be complacent because it seems dental provision is shit in the UK

@onlychildhamster.
"there is supposed to be a NHS dental service and it seems to not exist for the vast majority of people"

I don't doubt some people struggle to find dentists, but the vast majority?!! That would be like 70-80% of the population never see a dentist. I live in the North West and up til covid, there was always a surgery around me advertising they were taking new patients. I don't know anyone who doesn't gave dental check ups (before covid).

And dh was instructed to book a hygienist appointment, £65 for half an hour!

My private hygienist costs that! And I'm guessing will be more thorough and a nicer experience

@Voicefancier of course if you pay privately, you can get any dentist you want. I saw a dentist today and paid privately, he didn't take NHS dental patients..That was my point. It seems from this thread that 70-80% of the population do see dentists but only private ones. The rest can't afford it and a few lucky ones get to see a NHS dentist.

It's a one year wait just to get on the books of the only 2 good nhs dentists near me...a few have shut the register totally now...this is why i wait until i can go to spain or turkey...its cheaper and actually better work for less money and you dont have to wait...all the new practices love using the word 'smile' in their trading name which equals cosmetic and high prices...

Have been told that there are no nhs dentists taking on patients in the whole county. Dd is 4 and has only had 1 check up in her life because of Covid and now the dentist has gone private. They want £9.50 a month for a private dental plan for her which includes 1 check up a year and only gives you 30% off treatment. Absolutely shocked ! Complained to NHS England and asked what I am meant to do and basically was told to fuck off it is what it is. I have a crumbling tooth but I will live with it, but I am worried I'm a bad mother if I can't get her seen! I sure as hell can't afford private.

Pre-covid 50% of adults only saw a dentist when they have pain.

NHS funding for general dental practice has increased at less than the rate of inflation for years. Whilst cost of staff, rent, materials, equipment has spiralled.

Covid safe operating procedures mean that for most dentists our capacity to treat has been substantially reduced. This means that I now have a 6 week wait for appointments. It used to be 1-2 weeks. There are measures we could put in place to improve that capacity (largely expensive ventilation) but it’s extremely expensive and there’s no hemp with funding it. In private practice they can increase fees to cover it, and thereby their capacity is less affected. I’m mixed practices the private fees basically subsidise nhs treatment.

Dental teams, both nhs and private have had a rotten year. The work we do puts us at high risk of covid infection. The vast majority of us have taken pay cuts. We watch years of hard work go down the drain as previously dentally fit patients have become neglected. Remember, as an nhs dentist (not a practice owner) I get paid the same if I do 1 filling as if I do 32 fillings and root canals. It’s £33 in case you wondered. That can put me below minimum wage. And that’s before I paid my tax, insurance, for my child care or my transport to work. For reasons I don’t understand, I’m still faced daily with people who won’t brush their teeth or reduce their sugar intake. Or their kids’. And then expect me to sort out the resulting disease. Usually by yesterday.

NHS dentistry as it stands is a disgrace. But equally I find much of what goes on in private practice extremely disturbing, as based on my last experience working in private practice, I’ll stick with the nhs.

I have Denplan insurance with my dentist, I'm not sure if many dentists offer it? So because I have rubbish teeth I pay about £36 a month and most treatment is included. Occasionally have to pay for something eg £50 ish for an inlay that needs to be made in the lab.

It's a lot of money but for me it has to be a priority, I need a lot of dental work. Before July 19th I was able to get appointments when NHS patients couldn't.
It's cheaper than being a private patient, for me at least.

Those with less awful teeth than me would pay less per month.

@onlychildhamster. I'm not sure this thread is reflective of the nation but I get what you're saying. Like I say around here, prior to covid, NHS dentists were advertising empty spaces so no excuse for anyone not to be registered with an NHS dentist in my town. I doubt that only one in four people have an NHS dentist.
So...I was interested to see what I thought was true (it wasn't! - well not exactly like I thought anyway!) so I tried to find out how many people in England were registered at an NHS surgery. No figures were given. (In Scotland it would seem everyone is registered - which gotta be honest, I find difficult to believe. No one has dentist phobias or goes private in Scotland?!) However I did find figures that in 2019/20 50% of adults in England went to an nhs dentist and 58% of children. More than you thought but certainly less than I thought. And I suppose some people go private out of choice, (eg my mum) and some never want to go. And some are probably registered but only go if there's a problem. But still it must leave quite a few wanting to go and not being able. I'd be so worried if I were one of those. Interestingly, I did find a survey, that said 95% of people said they could get an appointment when they rang. But of course, it's a survey so it's inevitably skewed by who replied.

Finally, there were 38million courses of treatment carried out on 19/20 and there were more dentists that year than the year before... 139!! A staggering 0.56% increase. Lol. I don't think that's going to deal with the problem. 🧐

@Voicefancier Thanks for the data, that was interesting.

I did get a NHS dental appointment in 2018 on the same day so I can believe that in 2019, people could get NHS dental appointments. I also saw a private dentist in the same year. What shocked me about 2021 was that every single dentist I rang/researched in my area of north london said they weren't accepting any more NHS patients or were seeing NHS patients. They only wanted private patients so I had to register as a private patient to even get seen.

The question is- what is going to be the reality going forward.

@onlychildhamster. I think they can't take on more because for anyone that's having treatment, as opposed to checkups, they have to leave a long gap between patients for the room to be sanitized. Some surgeries, such as in converted houses, have several dentist rooms so they can move between those. But my dentist syrgery is purpose built in a health centre so no space for extra rooms. If the room is being deep cleaned, my dentist can't work. There's no way he can increase his list if he's seeing even less patients.
The problem is, what is the endgame of covid? If we return to as it was Feb 2020, I guess dentists will take on new patients again. But if the current regulations of deep cleaning stay in place, then I don't see the situation improving. But how are dentists practices going to survive on such a decrease of income? It surely is a mess. I don't see how the country is going to cope. For me, I'm hanging onto my dentist like grim death!!

NHS dentistry as it stands is a disgrace. But equally I find much of what goes on in private practice extremely disturbing, as based on my last experience working in private practice, I’ll stick with the nhs.

Please elaborate

@Eorks hard to catch your tone there. Don’t want to put myself in a difficult position. But there are bad eggs in every profession and I feel dentistry is health care not a beauty industry. There’s a place for the latter but only once the basics are addressed. I found the pressure to sell intolerable.

I’m not sure what the answer is as I also think that a very high proportion of dental disease is preventable and like many other aspects of health care (I’m talking obesity, diabetes, heart disease) individuals need to take some personal responsibility, and government needs to step up with population level prevention (never minds a sugar tax, actual regulation, fluoridation, a meaningful school dental service). Of course this doesn’t solve the OPs problem, but would be an investment so that the future is Less bleak. I honestly think the future of NHS dentistry hangs in the balance.

Been trying for years here, trying to register my little one as well and they have said they'll only take them on if I have x done as a private patient which feels wrong to me. Very occasionally someone will post on fb that they have some spaces, and when you phone they say they went straight away.

Re nhs dentistry being a disgrace. The budget is insufficient and not growing. There is no incentive to properly sort out people mouths beyond our good will and professionalism. Seriously. Why would I spend 10 hours sorting someone’s mouth for £33? Why would practice owners invest in 21st century technology when it cannot pay for itself? Why are we currently set targets that can only be met by doing routine care, when actually I need to be prioritising emergencies? It’s reducing access for people who need it. Why have the covid SOPs not changed, despite restrictioNs generally lifting? This is blocking access for patients. Why are there no penalties for patients who waste my time (and prevent others from getting care) by not turning up? These parents block access for others. There’s a staffing crisis: nurses are very hard to find, brexit hasn’t helped. Why as a non-practice owner is my contract with the the owner not the NHS, meaning that I never see any pay up lift and meaning I have almost no say in the situation. As a dentist of 20 years experience, why am I on the same rate as I was in 2007? No one will pay me more. I’ve tried. The government has increased funding (less than inflation but its still an increase. I’ve never seen any of it. Most of NHS dentistry is done by people like me, while practice owners in mixed practices (most are mixed to some extend or another) get huge benefit from their NHS contracts but often do most of their work privately. No one advocates for us. My practice owner is relatively ok, but she can ask me to leave at any time (with notice). I’m officially “self employed” but if tested legally I’m in exactly the same position as a Pimlico plumber. I’m not sure what the answer is, but something needs to change.