A levels or BTEC if lazy but bright?

[teensteens]

DS had planned to take A levels at 6th form college in September but had a place to do a BTEC as back up. He did no work for GCSEs so was unsure if he would get the grade 7s required for maths, physics, computing A levels. He exceeded the grades but is now unsure if he wants to do the work required for A levels.

Am trying to get him to consider the pros and cons. Personally I dont think he has the work ethic for A levels as he has never done homework or revision (he has SEN and struggles with the concept of either) however he loves physics and has found it incredibly easy whereas there is no BTEC he is that interested in.

He had applied to do computing BTEC but many of the modules are not of that much interest to him and it appears to involve more writing than the A levels and very little programming.

Any thoughts welcome. Thanks

If he is bright then he might be bored out of his mind with BTEC as it is an option a lot of the slower ones will take.. as well as the completely disinterested/disruptive/ones who rarely attend.

The lecturer will have to go at a snails pace and keep going over the same points repeatedly.

(Based on having taught BTEC, but that might just be the demographic of the college I taught at)

My lazy but bright dd is set on an apprenticeship - which I'm pleased about and my hope is that she might after a couple of years realise the benefits of further education and will end up doing a levels or further study a bit later on. I think the reality of work will make her appreciate education and if it doesn't then she will be set up in a job she hopefully enjoys. I know if she went straight from school to sixth form she'd not achieve what she could do as she is does the bare minimum which won't work with a levels

In regards to his SEN. Has he got an EHCP?

Muchmore - No EHCP but did get a scribe.

He has left school so not sure who we can speak to re options as he is looking at a different college for A levels to BTEC. How would I find where Tlevels are offered?

Frazzle - that is exactly my worry with BTEC. You dont need to even have a 4 in maths/english to do the level 3 so he will hate the pace if slow or anything is repeated and no doubt disrupt the lessons.

Kinsters - he is definitely off the scale lazy as in never done any homework let alone revision. It wasnt a given he would get the grades he needed for A levels yet he wouldnt do anything even if he knew the exact topic/question. It was so upsetting and stressful.

Interesting that teachers have pressure to pass BTEC. Still he would likely just end up with a pass due to annoying those teachers so not sure what that would lead to.

Thirty - Does your Dd know what she wants to do. No idea what DS could do an apprenticeship in or who would employ him. He certainly wouldnt want to consider full time hours or work and study due to the laziness.

@teensteens - What is his SEN, if you don’t mind sharing? I notice you’ve said that he is lazy a couple of times so I wondered if he has ADHD, as that sometimes (understandably but quite wrongly!) attracts a ‘lazy’ label , and would make a difference to the adjustments needed for him to cope in A-level classes.

My experience is that FE colleges deal a lot better with SEN’s that most schools do, and are more likely to make accommodations in class and look at more creative ways of supporting.

Fuck me. BTECs aren't easy. They are different as less weight is placed on a final exam. The downside of this is that you have to hit the ground running and start getting Distinctions in course work right from the beginning to have any chance of a Distinction /starred Distinction

If he's lazy a btec would be awful. They reward diligence rather than last minute cramming.

@Frazzledazzles

(Based on having taught BTEC, but that might just be the demographic of the college I taught at)

This certainly wasn't the case for dd1s A level equivalent, there was lots of content as well as practical work. Tbh the OP's ds sounds supremely unsuited for a btec!

@Kite22

I'd see it as the other way round, from SometimesRavenSometimesParrot

Because BTEC is constant assessment, he will have to do the work each week / month / whenever the assessments are, whereas if he thinks he can get away with slacking off as "nothing counts until the exams at the end" he probably won't put the work in that is needed.

None of us know him of course, but, where as some staying awake in lessons and a bit of last minute cramming might work at GCSE, it won't cut the mustard for A levels.

I do agree but my point was if he doesn’t do the work he’ll really quickly screw himself over in a BTEC! It doesn’t sound like the fact the work is due every week etc will mean a lot to him.

He seems to have natural ability, so A Levels would be a better fit for that, and hopefully working with college and only having to do subjects he’s interested in he might start to put work in. Even if he’s ‘lazy’ at the start and doesn’t do what’s needed, you can pull it back at A Level with work and dedication.

Obviously we don’t know if your son would do that, but given neither qual seems like an amazing fit, I would suggest playing to his strengths and reassessing mid October.

I would not recommend T Levels for your son given what you’ve said about him.

Still he would likely just end up with a pass due to annoying those teachers
Firstly teachers are professionals and don’t mark students down for being annoying. Secondly a Btec grade has little to do with the quality of work. There will be a task for a Pass, an additional task for a Merit and another task for Distinction. The final grade is based on completing all the tasks. If he only does Pass tasks then he’ll get a Pass grade. If he does the additional tasks he’ll get a higher grade. So it’s easy for you and the teacher to track his progress and push him to do the additional tasks. With A-level you have very little idea what he’s doing on a weekly basis and it’s much harder to track progress, therefore much easier to fail. Not to mention the work is harder.

I'd push for Alevels, I think it opens up more easily to a degree which he might find himself wanting to do when all his friends are.
I got three As at Alevel and did a bare minimum (or none) of homework or revision. If you're naturally quite bright I think picking up the content is easy. If he can learn equations and methods without too much extra work then he will probably be fine. I learnt how to structure and essay and that was the majority of what I needed to get good grades. Follow the pattern and you're laughing.

Do colleges have targets for individual students for A levels or BTECs based on the students progress ie from their GCSE results?

Frazzle - yes ADHD and likely ASD too but not diagnosed by NHS and he has not told either college.

If he is lazy but bright he has got a chance of getting good a level results just based on class work, memory and some rushed revision. It's not much of a chance but I've known it happen. (not to me sadly).

There is no chance at all of that with BTECs which need year round effort to keep up to date with high quality course work.

A good BTEC is every bit as good as an A Level but IME students used to being graded by exams at the end of the year find it hard to adjust to every bit of course work from Day 1 onwards being equally important.

@teensteens

Do colleges have targets for individual students for A levels or BTECs based on the students progress ie from their GCSE results?

Frazzle - yes ADHD and likely ASD too but not diagnosed by NHS and he has not told either college.

It’s worth mentioning this to the colleges. They may be able to assess or offer support.

I run a Sixth Form that offers BTEC and A Levels. In the last 3 months or so of year 13 the A Level kids generally have more work and more stress than the BTEC kids, up until then it’s the other way around though. In year 12 the BTEC kids have so much more work than the A Level kids. If the only reason he’s considering BTEC is because he thinks it will be less work than A Levels, he needs to think again. BTECs are a different kind of difficult, they aren’t as reliant on raw academic ability, but they are a huge amount of work.

I would go for the A levels, it sounds as if he has at least got a genuine interest in those subjects as well as the academic ability. It will be a huge challenge but you may find he matures over the next couple of years and steps up his work ethic. Much more likely if he's interested. And I do think the A levels would be worth more to him in the future unless he's very sure he wants to go into computing as a career. Hopefully the college will be supportive of his SEN needs and as he's not doing essay subjects, he may thrive on the intellectual challenge.

Thank you - some very interesting posts. We will mention SEN to whichever college he chooses and try to get whatever support we can but he didnt want it mentioned at application.

The other factor is that BTEC is offered within a mile of our house whereas 6th form college for A levels is at least an hours commute, likely more as we only have schools locally and he wont consider a school environment. I think this is influencing his indecision. He is not keen to going back to getting up early again as is not fazed by the logistics of the journey just the idea of getting out of bed!!

If A levels were local I dont think he would even think of the BTEC.

Goodness, an hour each way sounds exhausting! Are you sure he wouldn't consider something closer? I don't think the BTEC sounds right for him though, he's really only thinking of doing it because it's closer and that's not a good enough reason to sustain him through the course. Why won't he consider a school sixth form?

An hour each way isn't unusual. Either in a City (traffic) or rurally (distance).

He definitely wont consider a school as has hated school environment and hopes college will feel different with less rules. All our schools have business dress in 6th form which he refuses to consider and he really struggled with uniform and shoes previously as wants comfort and not understanding why it matters. He genuinely doesnt seem to understand why clothes might matter or care about brands/colours etc or why business dress or shoes rather than trainers might be worn!! This is the nearest college offering A levels.

Do the journey too! That’s a good reality check.
Time it
Get bus timetables
Help him plan

Has he also got dyspraxia - if not a practical course might be better?
People with ADHD need a lot of structure so I’d imagine BTEC with constant work would be better than trying to organise his own revision. Equally some don’t do any work but thrive on the last minute adrenaline rush and manage to pull off impressive grades (like yours truly)

I was going to suggest a left field of check the Navy website as there are a wide range of careers and they help with training. But the uniform aversion may be an issue!

Jarst - Yes the uniform aversion would definitely be an issue as he can only wear soft fleece and trainers!

Tractor - Not dyspraxic as far as I know but has no practical skills at all and absolutely hated every practical subject at school such as DT, art etc

Rumm - He does the journey regularly alone so there is no issue with planning it - hence he knows exactly when he would need to leave home to be there in the morning. He was used to an early start/similar journey for school and never complained then as he had chosen the school/journey but after a 3 month break I dont think he is sure if he wants to have to leave at 7.30am for another 2 years.

can you try to reframe ‘lazy’ in the context of SEN?

my son has ASD and a learning difficulty. He is far from lazy, he always worked very hard at school and now college, in the school day. Homework was always a struggle from primary school, for several years I refused it. As far as he was concerned school work was for school, , not the evening or weekends.
He got a decent enough bunch of GCSEs, and is doing well at college. 6