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Clear desk policy or “no Linda you don’t need 10 teddies on your desk you’re a 42 year old woman”

287 replies

Strafficy · 21/08/2021 14:33

I’m at the end of 2 weeks annual leave and clearing out emails.

Member of the team has taken the opportunity of me not being there to start an email thread with my boss about my clear desk policy and how unhappy she is. Boss rather bemused and “can you talk to XXX when she returns”

I started 6 mths ago and have asked all staff in my division to have a clear desk for a number of reasons

  1. piles of paperwork everywhere some of it years old and I want them out of the habit of printing everything (one member of staff was printing all their emails!)

  2. We are supposed to hot desk and it isn’t fair on part timers when they come in to sit at someone’s desk when it’s piled high with family photos/teddies/half eaten bowls of cereal

  3. Frankly some of them are bloody unorganised and needed a kick up the arse

  4. confidential information left all over the desk for anyone to see

This staff member has done nothing but complain about it since day 1. I’ve had just about enough now

OP posts:
MargosKaftan · 21/08/2021 17:08

OP - the confidential information being left out overnight is a problem. The hot desking for part timers is also a problem.

The other 2 issues is just you wanting other people to work like you. Many people find it easier to take in information if they print something out. I get you dont think like that, but if you are going to be a good manager, you need to allow for the fact that different people work best in different ways. Make sure there's lots of confidential waste bins about and encourage the frequent printers to tip all the things they've printed in it at the end of the day.

Does 'Linda' actually share her desk, or is she a full timer so not sharing with the part timers? Many people work best with their own space, do you really need all the desks to be hot desks?

Do you have the public / clients walking past Linda's desk? If not, why does it matter if she's got stuff on show, or are you just one of those people grumpy about mess?

Really think why you need this fight to happen. Can you not compromise?

SionnachRua · 21/08/2021 17:09

If Covid is all that concerning to the company, they wouldn't have staff coming into work at all. Covid is airborne and the risk of surface transmission is neglible at best. So I wouldn't accept that as a reason why Linda can't have her teddies.

OP sounds like a bullying, controlling manager obsessed with minor details and I hope for Linda's sake that the company get a better one soon.

MichelleScarn · 21/08/2021 17:11

@SupermanWithTheGreyHair

The one time I came in and found the office empty and paperwork everywhere I cleared it all into the locked storage and "accidentally" took their only key home with me. Came in to total panic and while I wasn't popular that day it never happened again....it wasn't really the only key but as manager I held the other one no one was keen to ask me for it given the circs!

I bet they all thought what a nobhead you were. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Absolutely, total nob head. Did it make you feel good that you'd caused panic in people? Can't imagine any staff having good will towards a manager like that.
godmum56 · 21/08/2021 17:11

@MargosKaftan

OP - the confidential information being left out overnight is a problem. The hot desking for part timers is also a problem.

The other 2 issues is just you wanting other people to work like you. Many people find it easier to take in information if they print something out. I get you dont think like that, but if you are going to be a good manager, you need to allow for the fact that different people work best in different ways. Make sure there's lots of confidential waste bins about and encourage the frequent printers to tip all the things they've printed in it at the end of the day.

Does 'Linda' actually share her desk, or is she a full timer so not sharing with the part timers? Many people work best with their own space, do you really need all the desks to be hot desks?

Do you have the public / clients walking past Linda's desk? If not, why does it matter if she's got stuff on show, or are you just one of those people grumpy about mess?

Really think why you need this fight to happen. Can you not compromise?

then there need to be other solutions. The world cannot afford myriad offices using tons of paper per year.
AlCalavicci · 21/08/2021 17:11

@Sparklingbrook

The company I worked for employed people that came round and cleaned your workspace. They would tip the computer keyboards upside down and attack them with a paintbrush. Bits of food, mainly crisp crumbs would come flying out. Bleurgh. We had regular breaks and lunch hours and a canteen, nobody neededto eat at their desks.
@Sparklingbrook , Was that company Interserve by any chance ? I worked for them for many years and this was a big part of our work , we started doing it when there was the huge MRSA outbreak years ago. Depending on the office we were servicing we either just sanitised sanitised, decrumbed sanitised, decrumbed, dry shampooed chairs sanitised, decrumbed, dry shampooed chairs , desk / chair sweep

The person that got the most crap out of the keyboards ( think of the older style key boards with raised keys rather than the almost flat ones that most people have today ) got a bag of sweets at the end of the night .
The crap that came out of them was revolting Envy

OverTheRubicon · 21/08/2021 17:12

@thecognoscenti

Staff are people. They aren't automata. Frankly they probably spend most of the time they're awake sitting at their desk or in the office and if they want a bit of personalisation to remind them they're a human being as well as a money-making machine it shouldn't be a problem. Provided they can still do their jobs it's none of your business.
All of this. If it's full hot desking, fine. But you can't get the best out of people at work, at least in the long term, if you don't treat them as humans, who might want to have things around them that make them feel like they belong, or share something that is important to them.

Confidential paperwork obviously needs to go, and so should unnecessary printing or not having free desks for part timers, or if one of Linda's teddies is holding a sign promoting the National Front (or any political group, really).

But if you know that your boss and colleagues see you as not able to make themselves a physical location in the office, don't be surprised if people's loyalty is similarly impermanent.

KarenofSparta · 21/08/2021 17:16

@megletthesecond

I eat at my desk. I can't go breakfast to lunchtime without food. (I'm already underweight and walk to the office). What I hate is that we are no longer allowed to put memos up on our desk. I simply don't have the memory to remember the information unless it's staring me in the face. I waste a lot of time searching through electronic folders for phone lists and codes when what I really need are some coloured post it's in front of me.
Bloody hell are you me Meglet.

So similar, plus lunch is just half an hour, it's a big building and takes 10 mins to get to the cafeteria. I'd rather be eating.

Most of my team eat at our desks. We also hotdesk.

No teddies however.

Baystard · 21/08/2021 17:16

I am neuro diverse and find clutter really unsettling, so in open plan office environment I prefer a clear-ish desk policy as it helps me to work more efficiently. A potted plant or a pot of pens, or a filing tray with papers etc is fine. In the past I've had colleagues whose document storage system was basically untidy heaps of papers strewn over their desks and I found it really difficult to have in my eye line.

WombatChocolate · 21/08/2021 17:25

Hot desiring usually occurs when there aren’t enough desks for all and not everyone is in every day.
In this scenario, an individual simply cannot keep their stuff on the desk…it is hogging space that others need.

However, if you’re running a system that is neither one thing nor another, it’s more tricky to enforce. If everyone’s in most or all of the time and have their own desk, clear desk policy is quite tricky to enforce, unless you’re prepared to be rigorous about it every day for a long period. Without enforcement, people who sit at the same desk every day will quickly start leaving stuff out.

So, it sounds like you need to decide if you are properly hotdesking. If so, it’s easy to explain and understand because anyone leaving stuff out is hindering others who need workspace. If you just want clear desk, then you need to do more than send an email or have a word to say that’s the system. You’ll have to check everyone’s on a daily basis for a good period.

Team members are often awkward about these kind of things. It’s the managers job to manage them and to manage them both humanely (recognising some people find this kind of thing difficult, but also to make it happen)

And to those who don’t like these kind of policies, well hot decking is fairly easy to understand…if there aren’t enough desks, you simply can’t keep one for yourself and leave others without a workspace when you’re not there. And for clear desk policy, it’s just a case of getting used to a different way of working. You need to be oriovided with a locker or similar to keep your stuff, and again, ther are good reasons behind these policies such as confidentiality.

Whiskyinajar · 21/08/2021 17:26

@Fucket

Oh god I’m having a flashback to when I implemented similar policy. There was one stubborn man who refused to comply, I got rid of the filing cabinets and told him we weren’t keeping paper files anymore. Even got him to use the electronic versions quicker than using paper files.

Can’t remember how I got him to sort his desk out, but eventually I spent so much time arguing with him over it we ended up getting married and having 3 kids.

Brilliant Grin
KatherineJaneway · 21/08/2021 17:27

That just seems like deliberately making people unsettled and less efficient. Bet it didn’t apply to senior management.

All of us have clear desk policies, whatever rank. It stops those people who have to 'claim' a space for themselves.

LoveFall · 21/08/2021 17:31

Maybe I am a dinosaur, but I always had a few personal things in my office. They help me stay grounded.

People will probably laugh at this, but my most treasured was a knitted stuffed leprechaun named Seamus. My Mom knit toys for our Children's Hospital and late in her life knit a stuffed toy for each of her kids.

She presented me with Seamus "for your office." He promptly moved in. He was unobtrusive but gave me comfort as she developed dementia, could no longer knit and died 7 years ago.

I would have been very sad if he could not be with me at work.

As for eating at your desk, many did it as we had strictly applied productivity requirements and it was just easier to grab a sandwich.

Lorw · 21/08/2021 17:31

I’m all for a tidy desk but I like seeing personality on peoples desks, a family photo, their favourite pen holder, with all their favourite pens, it’s just nice 😁

Hot desking is rank 🤢

MichelleScarn · 21/08/2021 17:31

@KatherineJaneway

That just seems like deliberately making people unsettled and less efficient. Bet it didn’t apply to senior management.

All of us have clear desk policies, whatever rank. It stops those people who have to 'claim' a space for themselves.

What's the issue about people having 'their space' Yes can see the difficulty when not enough desks but when just because management say so?
DismantledKing · 21/08/2021 17:32

@Fucket

Oh god I’m having a flashback to when I implemented similar policy. There was one stubborn man who refused to comply, I got rid of the filing cabinets and told him we weren’t keeping paper files anymore. Even got him to use the electronic versions quicker than using paper files.

Can’t remember how I got him to sort his desk out, but eventually I spent so much time arguing with him over it we ended up getting married and having 3 kids.

I think we need more info about this
Sittingonabench · 21/08/2021 17:32

I’m not a fan of a clear desk policy for permanent office staff to be honest (although if it is a policy I will of course comply). Worked in both and found it much easier when calandra for monthly reporting, targets dates etc were pinned up, lists of projects that need monitored etc was just there for me to see. Obviously confidential info was always cleared away and filed but the file would be on my desk waiting for me. As for other stuff it never bothered me if people had hoots of their kids - I imagine it was motivational for them and the teddy was likely a stress reliever. At Christmas I enjoy people’s desks with little trees or decorations etc. It shows they are human. I don’t think a clear desk policy works how it was hoped.

PrincessNutella · 21/08/2021 17:33

Jesus Christ working in an office these days sounds like hell on fucking earth pardon my french

ineedsun · 21/08/2021 17:33

@Fucket

Oh god I’m having a flashback to when I implemented similar policy. There was one stubborn man who refused to comply, I got rid of the filing cabinets and told him we weren’t keeping paper files anymore. Even got him to use the electronic versions quicker than using paper files.

Can’t remember how I got him to sort his desk out, but eventually I spent so much time arguing with him over it we ended up getting married and having 3 kids.

I love this!
wewereliars · 21/08/2021 17:34

Clear desk policy aka charter for nitpickers on a power trip.

Very unprofessional to air this on a public forum OP

Sparklingbrook · 21/08/2021 17:35

Possibly was that company @AlCalavicci, I worked for a big bank. I used to feel sad as they tipped those crisp crumbs out of the keyboards, and wiped the greasy computer mice. Yuk. Fely like apologising for my team and their filthy ways.

There was no reason for people to be eating at their desks anyway. I get that some people have to, but have they never heard of a plate or a wipe? Why do they have to let all the crumbs fall into their keyboard?

We didn't have the chair shampooing so we must have been mid level cleaning because we were told before they came that the desks and screens needed to be clear to let them do their job.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 21/08/2021 17:37

Substituting Linda for Karen doesn't make this any less unpleasant, misogynistic or ageist a post - and the only things on my desk are the computer, keyboard, mouse and monitors.

We all know that Linda is going to be nearer the 60 mark than 42. Just be honest and say you want the older woman and any evidence of her existing to vanish from your line of sight.

Gwenhwyfar · 21/08/2021 17:38

@MistySkiesAfterRain

Does anyone have a permanent office where a clear desk policy actually works? Not seen it myself.
Nope. Never worked anywhere that had it. In one place we had a rule that certain types of papers had to be under lock and key while we were applying for some ISO standard, but totally clear desk and a ban on anything personal, no.

If the rest of the company doesn't have this, I think it's quite unfair for OP to come in as a new manager and impose it on everyone who's used to having their things on their desk the whole time they've worked there.

EyebeIbewe · 21/08/2021 17:38

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

Covid is very rarely spread via surfaces.

lljkk · 21/08/2021 17:41

Pile of paper is a fire hazard...

(one member of staff was printing all their emails!)

I have always wondered what happens to printed-out emails. Shredder?

I prefer desks with some personal touches on them. Makes whole office nicer place to be.

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