Clear desk policy or “no Linda you don’t need 10 teddies on your desk you’re a 42 year old woman”

[Strafficy]

I’m at the end of 2 weeks annual leave and clearing out emails.

Member of the team has taken the opportunity of me not being there to start an email thread with my boss about my clear desk policy and how unhappy she is. Boss rather bemused and “can you talk to XXX when she returns”

I started 6 mths ago and have asked all staff in my division to have a clear desk for a number of reasons

1. piles of paperwork everywhere some of it years old and I want them out of the habit of printing everything (one member of staff was printing all their emails!)

2. We are supposed to hot desk and it isn’t fair on part timers when they come in to sit at someone’s desk when it’s piled high with family photos/teddies/half eaten bowls of cereal

3. Frankly some of them are bloody unorganised and needed a kick up the arse

4. confidential information left all over the desk for anyone to see

This staff member has done nothing but complain about it since day 1. I’ve had just about enough now

Does anyone have a permanent office where a clear desk policy actually works? Not seen it myself

It works if it is consistently enforced.

The company I worked for employed people that came round and cleaned your workspace. They would tip the computer keyboards upside down and attack them with a paintbrush. Bits of food, mainly crisp crumbs would come flying out. Bleurgh.
We had regular breaks and lunch hours and a canteen, nobody neededto eat at their desks.

Who is aged 42 and called Linda? 62 maybe

Clear desk policies have been common for years, as unpopular as they are.

I would say right now they're even more important - how can the cleaners do a proper clean of the nasty germ-y desks if they're covered in crap? Covid safety trumps personal taste.

There is plenty of clear space on my desk, and no confidential material left on display when I'm not there.

There are also some small, unobtrusive personal items that help me feel cheerful when it's all going to shit.

If that makes me Linda, so be it.

@HeddaGarbled

I’m a nester. Not photos and teddies, but stationery in the top drawer, folders of frequently referred-to resources in the bottom drawer, list of frequently used codes on the wall in my sight-line (etc). Having to negotiate other people messing up my systems would be irritating and time-wasting.

People are different. I believe quite strongly that it’s wrong to force everyone into your own mould and expect everyone to work well under regimes that are laid down from above and into which they have no input.

I'm like this, I always put away confidential information, (my personal confidential information is for me to worry about) but anything else is out because I need it.

I have a colleague like this, it is so annoying, the latest is not only nothing on desks but she is murmuring about emptying storage. I have all kinds of resources in mine which I am not getting rid of. She also moans about printing, much of which is legal documents so yes we do need to keep them.

I would struggle with a different desk everyday and I wonder how that would would work from a H&S pov, many of my colleagues have bespoke chairs, a few even a desk, those with autism etc could struggle with a change everyday.

Be clean and tidy, but some people work better with stuff to hand.

Roll out the covid excuse sanitise desk

@HeddaGarbled

I’m a nester. Not photos and teddies, but stationery in the top drawer, folders of frequently referred-to resources in the bottom drawer, list of frequently used codes on the wall in my sight-line (etc). Having to negotiate other people messing up my systems would be irritating and time-wasting.

People are different. I believe quite strongly that it’s wrong to force everyone into your own mould and expect everyone to work well under regimes that are laid down from above and into which they have no input.

Couldn’t agree with this more. As long as information is kept secure, then unless it’s dangerous or there is a formal hot desk policy (which in itself is pretty crap if people need to be in the office 4/5 days a week) this sounds pointlessly authoritarian to me. All this talk of sweeps with bin bags is giving me Orange is the New Black vibes! I mean, festooned desks annoy me too, but what harm do they really do? Or perhaps there could be a compromise and allow a small number of personal items like photos?

As for not sitting with team members or allowing them to sit at the same desk twice in a row... I imagine this causes unnecessary stress for many people.

When are we going to understand people are individuals? It’s wonder so many of us don’t like office life as opposed to wfh.

Also fully agree with the comment above about printing.

Clear desk is standard, stick to your guns. When we hot desked, we all had a little pin board that fitted into our lockers. We could pin family photos/momentos onto that and bring it out and pop it on the desk we were using that day if we were inclined to and then put it away again when we left.

It's a data protection breach to have any customer data on desks and we've pulled staff up on leaving their own data accessible. Could result in a large fine for DP breaches. Also, it's not hygenic to have lots of tat on the desks, it means they aren't cleaned properly.

It's so much easier for the cleaners to do their job of cleaning the desks when they are clear at night. All papers etc put away and no pictures and clutter everywhere.

Why don’t you go and deal with it professionally OP instead of whingeing on here?

Focus on reason 2&4. Perhaps have a session on why it's important in your next team meeting so you get the chance to explain why and they get the opportunity to ask questions or suggest compromises (unlikely!).

1&3 need to be tackled via different policies.

Yes, of course a clear desk policy can work - I don't leave a single thing on a desk - desks are shared, not mine.

Suggest they can have teddies and photos out as long as they're put away at the end of the day.

There’s several different things here and I think they need to be communicated separately, if you haven’t already.

1. a green and secure approach to documents that makes it policy not to print material out unless specifically requested or as a reasonable adjustment for staff with specific needs (who should also be offered software that may help them)

2. a hotdesking policy that sets expectations for how and when desks are used. Hotdesking policies need to be really well thought through. If effectively everyone has the same desk most of the time except on Thursdays when a couple of people aren’t in and some other folk are, then that isn’t really hotdesking and people won’t recognise that they are hotdesking and that there are expectations attached to that.

3. A confidential information management policy as part of your GDPR policy that gives staff a secure way to dispose of any printed confidential information, a locked drawer to place such information in should they need to step away from their desks, password protected computers that they must sign out of before they step away, etc.

4. a reasonable policy about personal items in the office. Clean desks are fine, soulless work environments can be a bit demotivating. Being permitted to have a family photo, your own mug, or whatever can be nice - it makes the workplace friendlier. A few personal items can be still be part of a clean desk policy.

I’m not saying you haven’t done the above. I’m just wondering whether a lot of things are getting wrapped up together here and so colleagues are fixating on one issue when a bit more understanding of the different things you are trying to achieve and why they are important might pour some oil on troubled waters.

Good luck with it!

@Antwerpen

Why don’t you go and deal with it professionally OP instead of whingeing on here?

Oh do fuck off Linda, and take your manky teddies with you.

If confidential information is left out, that needs addressing. And quickly. Formal warnings etc.

As for teddy bears on the desk? Yep, I'd totally go straight in for the "You're a 42-year old woman. Why do you need teddies on your desk?" line of approach. Ridiculous and very unprofessional.

Hot desking is awful. Unhygienic and really bad if you're a person who needs routine and to know where you will be working from each day.

The clear desk policy I can agree with. But not the hot desking.

I used to deliberately cover my desk in non-confidential paperwork because I was allergic to whatever it was the cleaners used. I'd invariably have to waste 10 minutes re-cleaning my desk if they'd been at it.

Poor Linda! Dont ruin another woman's name.

Luckily its just :try to have a clear desk where i work. Not possible in reality

@Sparklingbrook

The company I worked for employed people that came round and cleaned your workspace. They would tip the computer keyboards upside down and attack them with a paintbrush. Bits of food, mainly crisp crumbs would come flying out. Bleurgh. We had regular breaks and lunch hours and a canteen, nobody neededto eat at their desks.

When I worked for NHS Direct we had the same.

I agree with ActonBell. There are lots of issues here. If clear desks are to implement effective hot desking that is different to permanent desks and confidential information. No-one should be leaving confidential info lying about whatever the desk arrangements but if someone has a permanent desk, I don’t see why there would be an issue with them personalising it.

I’d also separate out the question of whether people are sufficiently ‘organised’. There are, for example, good reasons for not leaving certain papers lying around but being better organised isn’t one of them. People can have their own systems that work well but don’t look organised to others. So long as they are achieving what you need them to (and following policies like those I mention above) it doesn’t necessarily matter how they go about it.

Nothing to add to the conversation, but OP? This is the best thread title I've ever read on MN.

@Magpiecomplex

Why didn't you just ask them not to clean your desk?

@SweatyBetty20

Get your office cleaner on board. Everything that’s left behind is cleared into a bag and you have to go through it (and other people’s shite) to get it back. Rinse and repeat.

Absolutely not. Don’t involve the cleaners they’ll get blamed.it’s the worker responsibility to be adhering to policies and maintain desk and environment to clean desk standard. Cleaners aren’t there to throw things away for workers because office worker and manager can come to a satisfactory resolution