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Gravestone dilemma

76 replies

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 17/08/2021 23:54

Sorry, this will be a long one, but I have something of a dilemma wrt a gravestone. I didn't like to 'crash' the bereavement topic, as it's a more pragmatic situation rather than an emotional/supportive one.

Note: all names have been changed and a few immaterial details obscured/amended.

My elderly family member (Mavis) died late last year and, as the standard ‘settling’ time for the grave is now approaching, at some point soon, I need (and want) to arrange for the grave inscription to include her. However, I don’t know the best way to go about it and I wondered if you lovely MNers might be able to make any wise suggestions and give your opinions on how you think I should proceed.

Sadly, Mavis had a daughter (Laura) who died when she was very young. Laura was buried in what would become the ‘family’ plot and her parents (Mavis and her DH Albert) arranged for a very heavy and ornate headstone and surround, paying loving tribute to her, in the style of the time.

Several decades later, Albert died. Laura’s grave stonework had sadly crumbled, become all broken up and was far beyond repair/re-use. All of the pieces had to be completely removed and taken away to be disposed of, to enable Albert to be buried in the grave, as organised by Mavis.

Mavis arranged for a (very different – much more contemporary-style) new replacement headstone to be installed (with no surround), in due course following Albert’s burial. She added several lines of kind words in tribute to Albert and put a brief summary of the family names and relationships, which means that her name is actually mentioned twice on there. The only problem is that she didn’t leave any space on the new stone for the acknowledgement of her own death and burial in the grave, nor obviously her birth and death dates. The whole of the stone itself is filled up with writing (and a meaningful symbol at the top), but it sits upon a blank plinth of the same colour.

Mavis and Albert also had another DD (Emily), who predeceased them both, but she did grow up, marry and have children herself (adult, both still living), and she is buried in a separate grave, together with her own DH, who also died not too long after her.

Anyway, the writing on the gravestone is the equivalent of what follows:

LAURA JOHNSON
(Laura’s dates)
Much loved daughter of
Mavis and Albert Johnson
Also ALBERT
(Albert’s dates)
Loving father to Laura
Cherished husband of Mavis
(a few lines of personal tribute to Albert)
Also loving father
to the late Emily

Now, in an ideal world, she would have left enough space on the bottom for her own details to be added when the time came, and I would then have no need to be asking this at all, but for whatever reasons, she didn’t do that. Maybe she didn’t want to think about it (she was very reluctant to make a will, even at an advanced age, as she thought that doing so would tempt fate and she would die soon after as a direct result of having made the will). Maybe she thought it unnecessary, as she is already mentioned on there and didn’t want any ‘fuss’, but I would like her presence there to be acknowledged and her dates to appear as well. I also believe that, as well as primarily for the family, as time passes, grave inscriptions are also there as a mark in history and I want it to be accurate, for future generations of cemetery-visitors to see. She did have some MH issues, but she was also very astute and I certainly don’t believe that she just didn’t think about it.

As I see it, I have six options:
A: Leave the stone exactly as it is – no acknowledgment of the fact of her passing or her dates
B: Add her name and dates on the plinth – seems quite disrespectful, as if she’s an afterthought and obviously no room for a similar amount of personal tributes as for Albert
C: Add her name, dates and lines of tribute on the back of the stone – again, seems disrespectful and separates her from her DH and DD - and easily goes unnoticed/forgotten, as people don't expect writing on the back
D: Add a second stone in a similar style, to sit alongside the other one – seems unbalanced with three names on the left and just one on the right, and would probably look awkward and a bit overwrought
E: Add a stone ‘accessory’ in the same colour, such as a substantial square flower holder/urn, with her name and dates on – again, seems a bit divisive and ‘separates’ her from her DH and young DD
F: Replace the whole stone with a bigger one in the same colour and style and copy all of the existing wording, but with her name, dates and similar-length tributes at the bottom – this seems the obvious solution, but part of me feels that the stone has already had to be replaced once and this is the exact replacement she chose herself after being widowed (and her renewed tribute to her DD) and hasn't been there all that long; plus (and this might be a slightly weird thing to ponder), what would happen with the existing stone that she lovingly chose and had specially commissioned? Would it just be destroyed or thrown out?
Or G: Something else???

All suggestions and thoughts greatly appreciated. She lived to a fine old age and we weren’t immensely close, so I’m sad but not grief-stricken; but I really want to find the most practical solution to provide the most appropriate memorial and tribute to a much-loved lady. Feel free to give a lengthy considered opinion, just say the above letter of what you would do or anything else/in between!

Many thanks in advance to anybody who is still reading – sorry it was so long.

OP posts:
DonLewis · 18/08/2021 07:51

When we renewed the headstone on a family plot, there were a lot of rules about what we could and couldn't do.

We used the stone mason next door to the cemetery because they knew all of the rules and also appeared to have a hotline to the powers that be (the diocese? I can't remember now).

We were given a catalogue and told we were only allowed to choose from X, y and z because of the rules. We were also constrained by font.

So, in short, I'd check. We wouldn't have been allowed and additional headstone. Or an accessory.

Lockdownbear · 18/08/2021 08:00

Just one other thought to keep in mind, is that some cemeteries only allow usage of the gravesites for anywhere from 25-100 years, at which time they are re-sold and re-used so I don't know if that would have a bearing on a decision, but it might be worth checking with council or whoever manages cemeteries in your area.

The UK plots are purchased by the family and they remain owner's. You can find graves 100s of years old.
In time this may change, small island with little spare space, discussions happen now and then about reusing graves after 75 - 150 years. But that would be after the last body not from the first. I don't believe 75 years isn't long enough for people who were bereaved as children.
I do know of one small church graveyard (the church had previously fallen into disrepair) which was exhumed and reinterred in a bigger out of town cemetery. The land wasn't actually built on but left as a small grass area between the new houses and the road.

Noshowwithoutpunch · 18/08/2021 08:05

Option E

Justilou1 · 18/08/2021 08:10

Can you get a brass plaque engraved and added with her details? This could be glued and bolted to the top of the gravestone and not add extra height.

Justyouwaitandseeagain · 18/08/2021 08:13

Could you add two stone flower holders to either side. One could have Mavis’ name and the other simply ‘Now reunited’ to show that the grave is now complete?
Or perhaps one bigger holder with her name and ‘now reunited’ underneath? Perhaps you could even just say ‘And Mavis - now reunited’ if her full name is already on the main headstone twice.

LookItsMeAgain · 18/08/2021 08:46

I would go wit F - replacing the existing headstone with a new one that can accommodate everyone on the one side and no additional bits and pieces added to the grave that could get damaged or separated.

LookItsMeAgain · 18/08/2021 08:46

*with

SoupDragon · 18/08/2021 08:55

I like the idea of a book, in the same colour and style as the main stone. If you instal it leaning on the plinth part at an angle it will look more a part of the whole than an addition.

Take a wander round some graveyards for inspiration - I've wandered round a few and there are lots of different styles.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/08/2021 10:18

Thanks again, All - some really lovely ideas and good pointers to check up on for inspiration and to verify what's allowed. I'm feeling a lot more positive about it now.

The rules that some countries have about limited time use of grave plots really seem quite cruel to me, especially where there's no issue with running out of space. As PP said, we don't (currently) have these restrictions in the UK, but I believe that, in Germany, you only lease (and don't own) the plot and you're allowed to do so for a maximum of 30 years. It does seem to me to make a mockery of the idea of a 'final resting place' and very clinical to put an official time limit on how long you're allowed to 'officially' remember your loved ones for. Yes, of course, you never forget them at all, but it comes as a real comfort to many, many people to have a focal location, a small plot of land, permanently dedicated to the memory of their lost family member(s).

OP posts:
Boredmotherofone · 18/08/2021 11:08

Poor, poor lady. What a heartbreaking life she led Sad

Lockdownbear · 18/08/2021 12:19

My goodness 30 years is an incrediblely short period of time, esp for kids who lose a parent or sibling. Or even a parent loosing a child, even losing a spouse. That seems very cruel.
I even think 75 years is too short a time and it should be a minimum of 100 years preferably longer.

Oldraver · 18/08/2021 12:23

I am of the opinion that the ony names on a gravestone should be those of the deceased. Non of this daughter of Mavis stuff

I would start again with a new stone

My late DH's family wanted all their names on his stone..there were 8 of them. It put me under so much stress it hasn't been done

MindyStClaire · 18/08/2021 12:33

I wonder would it be possible to polish the text off the stone that's there now and then then redo it in a smaller font size and/or different layout so there was room to add an inscription for Mavis?

Lockdownbear · 18/08/2021 12:38

I would start again with a new stone

That depends on how you view the stone. I think of it as Mavis choose that one for her DH & DD it was her last permanent gift to them.
I think it's disrespectful to Mavis to throw that away.

CabbagesGreen · 18/08/2021 12:40

@Justyouwaitandseeagain

Could you add two stone flower holders to either side. One could have Mavis’ name and the other simply ‘Now reunited’ to show that the grave is now complete? Or perhaps one bigger holder with her name and ‘now reunited’ underneath? Perhaps you could even just say ‘And Mavis - now reunited’ if her full name is already on the main headstone twice.
Something like this is a beautiful idea.
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/08/2021 13:05

I am of the opinion that the ony names on a gravestone should be those of the deceased. Non of this daughter of Mavis stuff

I'd agree with that to a point. If a grave has a man's name, showing he died aged 78 and then a woman's name (especially if they share a surname) is later added, with her dying at 82, it's kind of obvious. Sadly, poor little Laura never really had chance to carve her own life and identity out, beyond being the DD of Mavis and Albert; but I agree that it's a bit odd putting the whole family tree in there, especially younger generations whom you would naturally expect to have been left behind as the older folk pass on.

If it had been up to me, I wouldn't have chosen the same words and phrasing that Mavis chose; but it was entirely her choice and none of my business as to how she preferred to pay tribute to her own DD and DH, hence my reluctance to replace the stone that she herself wanted and had made.

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/08/2021 13:07

*kind of obvious - kind of obvious what their relationship to each other would have been, I meant.

OP posts:
WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/08/2021 13:16

I wonder would it be possible to polish the text off the stone that's there now and then then redo it in a smaller font size and/or different layout so there was room to add an inscription for Mavis?

I suppose that's an option, but I think it would seem to me that we were still replacing her chosen, commissioned stone, even though it's the same actual stone - if that makes sense. Taking away the specialness of the personalised stone and just taking it back to any old random blank stone that isn't special to anybody. Plus, the lettering would be quite a lot smaller to fit it all on and then add a suitable amount of extra words for Mavis.

Could you add two stone flower holders to either side. One could have Mavis’ name and the other simply ‘Now reunited’ to show that the grave is now complete?
Or perhaps one bigger holder with her name and ‘now reunited’ underneath? Perhaps you could even just say ‘And Mavis - now reunited’ if her full name is already on the main headstone twice.

That is a lovely idea, thank you. It's very poignant to think of the grave as now 'complete'.

OP posts:
newnortherner111 · 18/08/2021 13:22

I'd have chosen option E had the alternatives not been suggested.

Lockdownbear · 18/08/2021 13:42

I like the "and Mavis" idea.
Although I would do

Mavis 1940-2021 or whatever just to show she had a long life.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 18/08/2021 13:47

Oh yes, I'm definitely going to make sure that her own dates are on there as well, plus a few carefully-chosen kind words.

OP posts:
Artdecolover · 18/08/2021 13:50

E

harriethoyle · 18/08/2021 13:52

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll
I do like the suggestion of a book - symbolically poignant for the Matriarch of her family whose passing has now wound up and closed the final chapter on her own household.

Oh God there's something in my eye... this is a truly beautiful sentiment.

Mischance · 18/08/2021 13:57

Can you fit in her dates next to one of the two times that she is already mentioned?

When my OH died last year we had a lovely gravestone made (cost an arm and a leg!) and made sure there was room for my details when the time comes. I was fine with that - but a bit gobsmacked when the undertaker asked if the grave should be dug as a "double-decker"!!

Notaroadrunner · 18/08/2021 14:14

Option E but not a flower holder or similar - just a straight forward plaque in the same marble as the headstone, with her name and dates engraved.