Should we be married?

[justforthisQ]

DP and I have never desired marriage but I can't figure out whether it would be wiser legally, financially etc to get married. If we did wed it would be an admin choice and probably wouldn't tell anyone till a while after to avoid fuss and pressure to have a do.

Please can I lay out the situation and you wise Mumsnetters advise me what's the smarter move legally etc?

1 DC. Hoping for 1 more. We would split the parental leave again if we were lucky enough to have another. So no one is being disadvantaged earnings or pension wise for childcare.
One earns 38.5k one earns 42.5k. Split all outgoings. Higher earner pays more for holidays, treats, stuff for DC but not loads. Mortgage in joint names and the type where if 1 dies the other becomes the sole owner.
We have named one another as beneficiary on our pensions.
We both have life insurance with the other names as beneficiary.
DP has about 5k debt left from before the relationship which he's paying off on a low interest loan, 2.5 years to go.
We have 2k joint debt sitting on an interest free credit card we are chipping away at (from last parental leave and doing up some of the house). That credit card is in my name.

We are very content in our relationship. Don't desire marriage or a wedding for romantic reasons.
Are we being foolish and losing out on advantages of marriage or have we got it covered?

Thank you if you've read this far. Advice really appreciated.

There is no widows pension anymore. Its a widows bereavment benefit payment of 10k, payable as part upfront and part monthly for a year or something like that.

I hate knowing that, but op you wanted to know why get married and there is a reason that I hope to goodness you never need.

Sorry but a well made will, with clear instructions on childcare and end of life arrangements would sort a lot of this. The sheer scale of the WORK when someone dies intestate or falls ill without a power of attorney is astounding; and how lawyers get rich!

However, IHT, pensions etc… all good reasons to get wed.

You could have a cohabitation agreement. I've copy and pasted this.

What can a cohabitation agreement cover?
The cohabitation agreement sets out who owns what and in what proportion in the relationship and covers elements such as the following:
• Ownership of property
• Deposit on your home
• What share of the mortgage or rent you will pay
• How household bills will be dealt with
• Bank accounts and money
• Life insurance
• Pensions
• Assets such as cars, furniture, other* property, jewellery*
• Payment of debts
• Pets
• Next of kin rights
Pension access, property title deeds and wills should also be considered.

You could also get Powers of Attorney done for Heath and for financial matters. You should do those even if you do get married though.

@NowEvenBetter I remember reading through that webpage around the time of DC being born when I was researching unmarried parenting and deciding what to do about surname.

Do you think there's something there I should pay particular attention to?

Ex-IFA here. Marriage and Civil Partnerships provide on one piece of paper the sort of financial security it takes co-habiting couples pages and pages of legal paperwork to arrange. Do it.

@TootTootTootToot

You could have a cohabitation agreement. I've copy and pasted this.

What can a cohabitation agreement cover?
The cohabitation agreement sets out who owns what and in what proportion in the relationship and covers elements such as the following:
• Ownership of property
• Deposit on your home
• What share of the mortgage or rent you will pay
• How household bills will be dealt with
• Bank accounts and money
• Life insurance
• Pensions
• Assets such as cars, furniture, other* property, jewellery*
• Payment of debts
• Pets
• Next of kin rights
Pension access, property title deeds and wills should also be considered.

You could also get Powers of Attorney done for Heath and for financial matters. You should do those even if you do get married though.

Just remember the legal validity of so-called "co-habitation agreements" has never been tested in the Courts.

Second and third the posters telling you to consider Civil Partnerships. All of the legal rights of marriage, none of the patriarchal baggage.

I don’t know, tbh, it’s not relevant to me so I’ve only ever noticed it when I see posts here/in trashy magazines where the shit hits the fan and women are shocked to discover you have to opt IN to legal protections. Personally, I wanted to marry my husband because I love him and wanted us to legally be each other’s family, and say the vows😍

I understand why you and your DP see marriage as a patriarchal institution. Traditionally, it has favoured men. However, in the present time, it is a legal contract. The contract doesn’t mean very much when life is good and things go according to plan. In that sense, it isn’t really necessary. But the contract provides a lot of built in protections if the shit hits the fan.

Other legal documents, such as wills, trusts, estate planning, medical and legal power of attorney documents, can take the place of the marriage contract and provide the same protections. It just means you have fifty pages to sign instead of one.

Consider what would happen to you or your partner in any scenario below. Is it what you would want to happen? Would you prefer what would happen if you were married?

Inheritance - who gets the house? You or the kids? Can you support the kids on your salary alone if the house/insurance money goes to them and they cannot access it until they are 18/21/25/whatever?

Inheritance tax - think of future value as well as now. 40% of everything over the threshold. So you would only get a little more than half of everything that was his over the threshold. Maybe that isn’t much now. But what about ten years down the line?

Medical emergency - who gets to make decisions if you end up on life support in the hospital? Would there be a fight between you and his parents/his sister/whomever? Are you sure there wouldn’t be a fight at this very, very emotional time? Would it be easier to ensure there wasn’t a fight?

Break up - if you decide to split and it turns out that it isn’t amicable, would you get more support if you were married?

Pregnancy - you die in childbirth. How does he get the child home without going through the courts? I don’t think he can, even if you have a will naming him as father and guardian to your children.

Traveling overseas - do you want to visit Dubai? Or stop off there on the way somewhere else? If you aren’t married, you are not legally allowed to share a hotel room. (Rarely enforced, I know, but don’t piss off the locals because they can and will report it and it will be investigated and it will ruin your holiday, your bank account, and create a criminal record).

Immigration - are either of you considering living or working abroad in the future? Marriage makes this much easier than proving a de facto relationship. And not all countries would accept a defacto relationship.

Almost of all of these issues can be taken care of legally. The question is, do you have the time or money or inclination to take care of them? It makes wedding planning look easy! 😂

Thank you @DifficultBloodyWoman and everyone for the excellent advice.

I thought that Civil Partnerships didn't have as many aspects as marriage? Now I think I was out of date thinking that.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/marriage-and-civil-partnership-in-england-and-wales/marriage-and-civil-partnership-in-england-and-wales-accessible-version

Looks like opposite sex civil partnership is identical to opposite sex marriage now?

Ok I think we are going to do Civil Partnership. Just discussed with DP and read out a lot of this thread and he agrees.

We are trying to figure out if there are any ways that marriage is actually better than civil partnership.
Possibly slightly better pension deal after one spouse has died?

... one difference I have noticed is you can annul a marriage if it turns out your spouse had an STD on the wedding day! But this isn't included in civil partnerships?!

Just because I personally like a thread that comes to a conclusion... We phoned up to book our CP today! Thanks to everyone who took the time to advise.

I feel really good about the decision, like we are solidifying our security and I feel quite loved up with DP even though we are just doing a basic admin style CP with a couple of witnesses.

Cheers all

@justforthisQ Congratulations!

This was me and DP - same incomes, same career prospects and all that. We’d been together 17 years and had two small children and had no desire to be “married” at all. But I decided after DC2 when his career started to get a little ahead and mine slowed down after two mat leaves, and the amount of money we jointly had together with the house etc that it would be safer to get married. DP agreed - he’s quite against marriage after his upbringing but he’s a decent man and appreciated my concerns. So we married in a registry office with two neighbours as witnesses, just for the paperwork.

We still both rarely refer to ourselves as married, we don’t celebrate our anniversary, we didn’t make a thing of it at all but we do both feel more secure knowing things are legally tied up.

If civil partnerships had been available then we would have done that instead, but they weren’t. If I were you I’d just do it on the down low for the security.

I don’t agree with the NOK thing. I literally don’t have anyone so I can write down whoever I like. The hospital isn’t going to ask them questions !

We are in a similar position and considering a civil partnership. We are older with no children together and have two separate houses with no joint finances. I get everything in his will and his pension, but would get more pension if we were married.

We are undecided.

I thought the main residence was nil band of it was being inherited by direct descendent? Change the will so each of your halves go to your child in trust with the other partner a life tenant