Eviction from care home - what will happen?

[54321nought]

Any experiences or insights of knowledge about what is likely to happen?

The dispute is over who pays the fees, the resident has been given a date to leave by, which is this week. The resident will not be leaving on that date, but is expecting to leave around a week later.

I am assuming there will be no physical eviction, or will there be? Will it take time to get a court order, as in evicting a tenant? Or will it be possible to evict the resident on the day of the dead line they have been given?

What form will the eviction take? Bailiffs etc? ( resident cannot walk)

And if not evicted on the day of the deadline, what will happen after that, between the deadline day and the day they actually leave?

They are dependent on staff for care, dressing etc, and taking to the toilet, and of course for being given food.

Will this continue? Or will they be left?

I am assuming care will continue while the individual is in the home, but I am not sure.

Anyone with any knowledge of these situations? It is a Bupa home, if that makes any difference.

If a person has capacity, then they are allowed to make decisions that other people may consider unwise (assuming these are within the Law).

They are also able to tell people whatever they want about their circumstances and that information will be taken at face value unless there is a reason to disbelieve them.

Try to find out what the home staff have been told (or assumed) about your relationship with your friend and how much support you can offer. It may be that their understanding is very different from the real situation and their planning is based on incorrect information, e.g. they may not have made a safeguarding referral to social services if they believe that they are discharging your friend into your care.

I can see how somebody not well enough to go home got shuffled sideways into a nursing home. And from his point of view, he was told to go there and sees it as part of "getting better", rather than "future living".

Yes. There is a frightening assumption on the part of many, that elderly (and not so elderly) people in dire straits (dwindling independence, lack of mobility, cognitive impairment etc.) are reconciled to their own demise and should act accordingly.
Well, they're not. If you can't bear the thought of losing your autonomy now, that doesn't suddenly change when you're ill or old. What's seen as contrariness or bloody-mindedness is someone's fight for life.

I agree also it doesn’t sound like this person is old. I’m 56, I can tell you I have no intention of going into a care home anytime soon and certainly not early 60s. It’s not old. You might think it’s old in your 30s and 40s but it isn’t.

It sounds as though the OP's ex was discharged from hospital to an NHS funded care home place for rehab. Now that NHS funding has ended.

I don't understand why Social Services aren't involved though. I would have thought the Care Home manager would have been dealing with them in order to get both capacity assessments and a long term care plan established.

If the person has capacity to make their own decisions then they are at liberty to return home, however bad an idea that may appear to be to the OP.

If this were my friend I would speak initially to the Care Home Manager and find out who the Social Worker is they've been dealing with and then speak to them. As others have said, at no point allow them to make you responsible for your friend.

@diddl

Has anything been signed?

No, this is one thing is is very clear about - he has been instructed to sign various things at various times, he has refused to sign anything ever.

He has not signed anything at all in relation to his stay in the care home, or the fees.

@YanTanTethera123

Honestly if it was me not you, I would stay right out of it. Not only is it not your responsibility, but you could end up getting railroaded into doing things you DO NOT want to do. He has social work involvement so he is not alone ^^This. I got embroiled with a lady who’d fallen and fractured her wrist, no relatives in this country and Social Services didn’t want to know. Eventually I had to go to my GP and flatly refuse to have anything else to do with her. I didn’t know the lady, just happened to find her on the ground on a bridleway, in the dark, in pouring rain. Ambulance took her to hospital and because she knew the farm we lived at she arrived on our doorstep at 2am in a taxi. It took 3 weeks to get anyone to help. Don’t get involved is my response!

Helpful, thank you.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

The difference is between rehab (free in NHS) and permanent care (means tested funding from social care)

You don't usually make much improvement after 3-6 months with a CVA. After that time disabilities are usually permanent but you might learn to work around them better. At this point this is not a rehab placement.

He has permanent care needs. He can choose to get those met at home with a care package which would be free with savings under 23,000 or in a care home in which case the house would need to be sold as obviously he would not be living in it (nor is a spouse living in it).

Professionals appear to have advised him to stay in a care home but he is at liberty to ignore their advice and go home as long as he has capacity to make that decision and understands the risks he is taking. He should be offered care and adaptations at home but he can also decline those if he has capacity.

The way in which he was placed in care seems a bit muddy and we can only speculate that it may have been 6 weeks free during which time social care should have monitored the situation to see what the outcome would be or he may have agreed to a property disregard and changes his mind or he may have lacked capacity and now regained it.

The likelihood is he will go home with care if he agrees to it and the care home will keep him until that is organised or until he finally declines it and then they will send him home with a bill to pay.

Again, helpful, thank you

@godmum56, it would be extremely unusual for the rental income from an ordinary sort of house, to be anything like enough to cover care home fees, especially when tax, insurance and management/maintenance costs are taken into account.

If you were talking a £5m house in central London, that would be a different matter.

@LIZS

Is he receiving any rehab while in the home? If not is a rehab unit bed an option while his home is sorted. Can you support him with dealing with insurer and workmen?

no, there was no insurance

@Shedbuilder

Who are you, OP, that you know so much about this person's life — yet you say they have no family?

ex partner, going back several decades ago, and basically long term friend, we have been friends for far longer than we were partners, shared holidays, christmases etc, over many years

@Feelingoktoday

I agree also it doesn’t sound like this person is old. I’m 56, I can tell you I have no intention of going into a care home anytime soon and certainly not early 60s. It’s not old. You might think it’s old in your 30s and 40s but it isn’t.

of course its not old, I am 67 and that's not old either.....but there is background here of living in a house with no water or electricity, plus existing fairly extensive disability, possibly/probabaly permanent. I am a retired Occupational Therapist. I spent my whole professional life promoting and defending choice and agency for my adult patients of all ages with all kinds of needs, including making clear that home care shoppers could not refuse to buy alcohol for alcoholics and sweets and cakes for diabetics. BUT at any age, choice limiting shit can and does happen

So is it possible his mental capacity was already compromised if he had allowed it to lapse. Does he have any savings to do repairs?

[quote GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER]**@godmum56, it would be extremely unusual for the rental income from an ordinary sort of house, to be anything like enough to cover care home fees, especially when tax, insurance and management/maintenance costs are taken into account.

If you were talking a £5m house in central London, that would be a different matter.[/quote]
no but it covered the deficit....not London but quite an expensive area.

It sounds as though the OP's ex was discharged from hospital to an NHS funded care home place for rehab. Now that NHS funding has ended.

Yes. I would think it's not having any family where it's gone wrong now. I only have experience with elderly relatives, but towards the end of their rehab stay, the family was helping rearrange their house — moving beds if necessary, setting up the kitchen so they didn't have to reach up, liaising with the OT if any equipment was needed etc.

You shouldn't do any of this OP, I'm just saying that in general when somebody comes out of rehab and goes home, there have been people "behind the scenes" to make it work.

@Gillgardens

Can you support him with dealing with insurer and workmen?

As many others have suggested PLEASE do not get involved on any practical level. Not just for YOUR sake but also for HIS. Adult Social Services will not take responsibility if there is someone else around. From personal experience they are adapt at passing the buck.

I am taking this advice onboard, I will be very careful. As far as they know, I am simply the named visitor. I couldn't visit at all when it was NOK only, now I am very glad I was never listed as NOK. The care home allows up to 3 named visitors, I think, now, not NOK

@LIZS

So is it possible his mental capacity was already compromised if he had allowed it to lapse. Does he have any savings to do repairs?

OP said that Social worker had worked out and organised a scheme for this which he subsequently refused.

@Shedbuilder

Scrub that, I just spotted that you are an ex and a friend. So can you get the gas and electricity back on in his house and organise a bed downstairs or whatever it is he needs to be able to manage in his own home?

This won't work, it is a town house, there is just a garage on entry level, kitchen on first floor, toilet on second floor.

Gas I don't think will be a problem, but electric wiring is severely damaged. He was in the process of fixing it himself. There is also water/mould etc. Its a mess.

If the resident does not want to stay and has capacity they will be asked to leave and I would assume most Home Managers may raise a safeguarding with SS purely for the risk when they get back to the property.
If the person has capacity and needs personal care they will have to ring and pay for a home agency to come out 2/3 times a day or whatever is requested.
Ultimately if they have capacity it will be the same as you or I getting a taxi back to home and just sitting there. If they ask for help or you raise an issue with duty social work team someone may go out to support but they can’t help if it is not wanted.
Ideally you would set up the home care support before they are discharged.

@LumpyandBumps

If returning to his home is actually realistic at some point in the future it is still his home and not a capital asset. He can’t be expected to sell and be homeless when well enough to be discharged from care. A person’s home is only treated as a capital asset if they are permanently admitted to care. He can be treated as being there on a temporary basis for up to 52 weeks, and the value of his property disregarded. He was placed in the home by Social Services or NHS, and somewhere along the line of of them needs to take responsibility for him. There may be more to this than is immediately obvious, but pressing for the admission being temporary might be a good place to start. Age concern have an excellent help page regarding this.

This is very helpful, thank you

@ilovebagpuss

If the resident does not want to stay and has capacity they will be asked to leave and I would assume most Home Managers may raise a safeguarding with SS purely for the risk when they get back to the property. If the person has capacity and needs personal care they will have to ring and pay for a home agency to come out 2/3 times a day or whatever is requested. Ultimately if they have capacity it will be the same as you or I getting a taxi back to home and just sitting there. If they ask for help or you raise an issue with duty social work team someone may go out to support but they can’t help if it is not wanted. Ideally you would set up the home care support before they are discharged.

I hope by "you would" that you mean it as a generalisation? The OP should do no such thing!

@ExConstance

I work in care. If the person is a self funder - has agreed to pay the fees and there is an agreement/contract the care home can ask him to leave if there are arrears. If it is not a social services funded case then this will be a civil debt and would normally be dealt with by county court proceedings if it remains outstanding. If there is no payment they would probably secure a charge against the house. No care home would risk the adverse publicity of the physical eviction of someone who cannot walk. Adult Social Services should be involved as the potential discharge of a vulnerable adult to unsuitable premises where their care needs will not be met is a safeguarding matter. They can help arrange works to the house and put in a homecare package to support th former resident, he might be looking at 4 calls with 2 carers if he has very poor mobility they will help with washing, dressing and meals. The value of the house does not count for home care so it will depend on income if a contribution is payable. The main thing you can do, OP is ensure this is reported as a safeguarding matter and Social Services are involved.

Thank you

"No, this is one thing is is very clear about - he has been instructed to sign various things at various times, he has refused to sign anything ever.

He has not signed anything at all in relation to his stay in the care home, or the fees."

but you said that he was "out of it" at the time and lacking capacity?

Your friend needs an Independent Advocate, &/or a lawyer. As they are over 60, take a look at the AgeUK website.

www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/

Contact the local branch as they will know of the local statutory authorities & where best to get case specific help.

The situation sounds like a set of unfortunate circumstances & cock-ups allowed to entrench whilst distracted by Covid etc. The debt has to be resolved, & time is needed to determine who commissioned the care, set up the contract & who is to pay. Private care has provided care for many during the past year or so when the NHS could not, & I anticipate many cases like this where the contractual agreements were made on a nod & a wink to keep things going. Now the crisis is passing & the bills need to be paid.

You must not be seen to be providing support as it’ll be taken as a get-out clause by the statutory agencies involved.

A lesson for us all about planning & preparing for our future care by paying attention to wills, lasting/enduring powers of attorney etc. As incapacity, physical or mental, can happen at any time & it may only be temporary, but your rights (& assets) need to be protected.

@Feelingoktoday

I agree also it doesn’t sound like this person is old. I’m 56, I can tell you I have no intention of going into a care home anytime soon and certainly not early 60s. It’s not old. You might think it’s old in your 30s and 40s but it isn’t.

Ditto. I think I'd prefer to choose euthanasia over going into a Care Home!

I have contacted ageuk and am waiting to hear back

Lots of helpful information here

My main concern was that they would find themselves sitting on the pavement at some time today, but that doesn't sound likely from what you say

My other concern is whether they are a suicide risk.