Eviction from care home - what will happen?

[54321nought]

Any experiences or insights of knowledge about what is likely to happen?

The dispute is over who pays the fees, the resident has been given a date to leave by, which is this week. The resident will not be leaving on that date, but is expecting to leave around a week later.

I am assuming there will be no physical eviction, or will there be? Will it take time to get a court order, as in evicting a tenant? Or will it be possible to evict the resident on the day of the dead line they have been given?

What form will the eviction take? Bailiffs etc? ( resident cannot walk)

And if not evicted on the day of the deadline, what will happen after that, between the deadline day and the day they actually leave?

They are dependent on staff for care, dressing etc, and taking to the toilet, and of course for being given food.

Will this continue? Or will they be left?

I am assuming care will continue while the individual is in the home, but I am not sure.

Anyone with any knowledge of these situations? It is a Bupa home, if that makes any difference.

If a person has capacity then he can make an unwise decision
He will be sent back to his home whatever state it is in because that is his capacitous unwise decision
The care home has to give 28 days notice though not one day
It may be this is some kind of 'discharge to assess' or 'interim bed' that has been paid for by the hospital for a limited time which has expired. I say that because it's odd that he would be placed there against his will having not agreed to pay the fees otherwise. He would have to sign a contract which I guess he didn't or he has changed his mind. Usually a care home will obviously not take anyone if there is a prospect the fees will not be paid (by the person or by the state) so they avoid this scenario

He will surely have a social worker who arranged the placement in the first place
They will offer him a care package at home and aids and adaptations. They could assist him to arrange the house being made habitable but they will not pay for the care (if he has savings over 23,000) or for the renovation. He would have to do that

If he refuses to leave the care home after the notice expires they can call the police and they will take him to his home address and probably file a safeguarding concern but that's all they can do
If he gets ill again physically or mentally it'll probably result in a readmission to hospital but it all hinges in capacity.
If he has capacity then he can do as he likes and take whatever risk he likes

For you OP I would caution against getting involved. Do not give your number to any professional persons.

If his home flooded, did he not have insurance at the time?

If he did, surely the insurance company can sort to make the house habitable again and sort the water/electricity?

Poor man! I’m not surprised he has convinced himself he’ll get completely back to normal and therefore won’t sell his home to pay fees, a sudden disabling stroke must be hugely traumatic and very hard to come to terms with. But his Care Home should have been addressing this with him so he can accept his new reality.

And when admitted he was too “out of it” to make an informed choice, so the home really hasn’t done well to allow this to happen.

Can he remember when and how often fees were discussed with him? It could be that the Home didn’t follow up fees owing early enough or clearly enough.

However, he’s definitely going to be liable for most if not all of the amount - he could’ve argued the case for the first month or so, but not after eight months.

He’d be as well phoning adult SW today and being treated as an emergency case as waiting a week and doing it then. But the bottom line is that if he won’t pay for his care, he simply won’t get any care (until he’s become ill enough for a hospital admission).

This doesn’t sound like care of an elderly person?

So an early 60 year old had a stroke. Went to hospital. Hospital eventually discharged them to a home to recover? Surely this is what the NHS is there for to assist with the recovery and fund it?

Say the person was in their 40s? Does the state force somehow to sell their home when they need rehab care for x period of time? No. The NHS funds it.

@Jellycatspyjamas

There must have been some agreement about fees when he was discharged from hospital - they couldn’t simply put him in a home without an agreement about how the fees would be paid, the hospital can’t make the decision to put him in a home and have him cover the fees without his written agreement. If they placed him there without that agreement in place the fees would be the responsibility of health and social care.

Under the Care Act 2014 people can be discharged with up to 6 weeks of care (in a rehab unit or care home) that is not chargeable/free. This was added to the act to lessen the “bed blocking” pressure on hospitals. I wonder whether he was placed in the care home under these arrangements but was then assessed as needing care longer term. Once the 6 weeks was up, he then became liable for the fees.

I thought savings were taken into account but you were NOT forced to sell your home?

@Bryterlayter1 that sounds likely.

@tara66

I suppose a court order should be made for the property to be sold to paid this person's debts - that's what would happen normally. The property would then go to auction to sell quickly.

If a person owes money and they have an asset (house) then proceedings should go ahead to cover that. That makes sense just saying not paying isn't good enough. If person has capacity then just court action and yes of course they should be evicted. Imagine if everyone said nope not paying and keeping house!

Has anything been signed?

Whilst he remains in the care home they will care for him anyway. No-one is that cruel as to stop and they are mindful of their reputation

But equally this is clearly a situation that can't continue from their POV so they had to put a deadline on it to force action. They are very very unlikely to actually call the police after 24hrs but they can't have many weeks of free care giving whilst people fanny about so they put a deadline to force action from social care I suspect. They would be unreasonable to discharge him whilst social care are actively trying to put a plan in place but if they feel social care are not trying hard enough to put alternative arrangements in place they have to threaten eviction.
He will owe them for the fees to now but it's quite likely they'll write them off if it means taking him to court.

The other thing care homes sometimes do is dump the person at A&E. its not the right thing to do but it happens.

I suspect they took him with a 'property disregard' which happens when someone has no money but has a house to sell. They allow x weeks for it to sell and expect to get the money afterwards. He would have had to agree to that. Looks as if he did and then changes his mind.

It is no part of the care homes job to discuss his prognosis etc with him. That's for his Drs and his social worker.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

I thought savings were taken into account but you were NOT forced to sell your home?

If you need residential care your home isn’t exempt. Why would it be? You’re not living in it any more.

@MrsPelligrinoPetrichor

I thought savings were taken into account but you were NOT forced to sell your home?

For a lot of people it is the only way to self fund, so there is no other option.

It obviously isn't feasible to be racking up date & a house is sitting empty.

They need to sell the house, to pay for care, that’s what happens, our family had to do this,

Ah sorry, just realised MIL didn't have to sell as she was still living there when FIL was ill. Need a coffee

@Christmasfairy2020

Social services will put them in hospital. They will then go home with 4 calls per day if they won't pay.

Social services can't "put" people in hospital any more than the NHS can "put" people in private care homes.

The question about rehab is a difficult one, especially with the Covid issue. In normal times, rehab is given if its going to do any good...so the person has to be capable of learning and retaining new stuff, to agree to co-operate and the potential for actual neurological recovery has to be assessed too. If the person has a partner who will be involved in their care at home (OP NO! do not offer) then they may also be taught how to help the person to move and so on.
BUT and its a big but....if he has has previous strokes or other previous issues....which apparently have caused issues in the past (living with no water and electricity) then I don't think its as simple as I have described.

Honestly if it was me not you, I would stay right out of it. Not only is it not your responsibility, but you could end up getting railroaded into doing things you DO NOT want to do. He has social work involvement so he is not alone
^^This.
I got embroiled with a lady who’d fallen and fractured her wrist, no relatives in this country and Social Services didn’t want to know. Eventually I had to go to my GP and flatly refuse to have anything else to do with her. I didn’t know the lady, just happened to find her on the ground on a bridleway, in the dark, in pouring rain. Ambulance took her to hospital and because she knew the farm we lived at she arrived on our doorstep at 2am in a taxi. It took 3 weeks to get anyone to help.
Don’t get involved is my response!

The difference is between rehab (free in NHS) and permanent care (means tested funding from social care)

You don't usually make much improvement after 3-6 months with a CVA. After that time disabilities are usually permanent but you might learn to work around them better. At this point this is not a rehab placement.

He has permanent care needs. He can choose to get those met at home with a care package which would be free with savings under 23,000 or in a care home in which case the house would need to be sold as obviously he would not be living in it (nor is a spouse living in it).

Professionals appear to have advised him to stay in a care home but he is at liberty to ignore their advice and go home as long as he has capacity to make that decision and understands the risks he is taking. He should be offered care and adaptations at home but he can also decline those if he has capacity.

The way in which he was placed in care seems a bit muddy and we can only speculate that it may have been 6 weeks free during which time social care should have monitored the situation to see what the outcome would be or he may have agreed to a property disregard and changes his mind or he may have lacked capacity and now regained it.

The likelihood is he will go home with care if he agrees to it and the care home will keep him until that is organised or until he finally declines it and then they will send him home with a bill to pay.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

Whilst he remains in the care home they will care for him anyway. No-one is that cruel as to stop and they are mindful of their reputation

But equally this is clearly a situation that can't continue from their POV so they had to put a deadline on it to force action. They are very very unlikely to actually call the police after 24hrs but they can't have many weeks of free care giving whilst people fanny about so they put a deadline to force action from social care I suspect. They would be unreasonable to discharge him whilst social care are actively trying to put a plan in place but if they feel social care are not trying hard enough to put alternative arrangements in place they have to threaten eviction.
He will owe them for the fees to now but it's quite likely they'll write them off if it means taking him to court.

The other thing care homes sometimes do is dump the person at A&E. its not the right thing to do but it happens.

I suspect they took him with a 'property disregard' which happens when someone has no money but has a house to sell. They allow x weeks for it to sell and expect to get the money afterwards. He would have had to agree to that. Looks as if he did and then changes his mind.

It is no part of the care homes job to discuss his prognosis etc with him. That's for his Drs and his social worker.

I wondered if Property Disregard was involved. Either way, let Social Services deal with everything.

Is he receiving any rehab while in the home? If not is a rehab unit bed an option while his home is sorted. Can you support him with dealing with insurer and workmen?

The question about rehab is a difficult one, especially with the Covid issue. In normal times, rehab is given if its going to do any good...so the person has to be capable of learning and retaining new stuff, to agree to co-operate and the potential for actual neurological recovery has to be assessed too. If the person has a partner who will be involved in their care at home (OP NO! do not offer) then they may also be taught how to help the person to move and so on

Off the point, but I'm quite surprised at this. A relative of mine was put into rehab - he'd had an illness which put him into hospital suddenly, but before that he was fully mobile and able to cope at home with carers coming in twice a day. However, his illness made him lose confidence in his ability to walk again. We really thought that a rehab place was the answer, but it absolutely wasn't. He was lucky if a physio turned up once a day for a desultory attempt at a walk up and down the ward, and if he was asleep or doing anything else they just went away again. The inevitable result was that his muscles totally atrophied and he lost his mobility completely and had to go into a home.

Who are you, OP, that you know so much about this person's life — yet you say they have no family?

although equally, it is possible they will be living independently and working again in a few months, possibly still in a wheel chair

Not in the house you describe though. He needs to live somewhere that is all one level. Hope you get some help/advice for him soon.

Who are you, OP, that you know so much about this person's life — yet you say they have no family? The OP has explained up thread

Can you support him with dealing with insurer and workmen?

As many others have suggested PLEASE do not get involved on any practical level. Not just for YOUR sake but also for HIS. Adult Social Services will not take responsibility if there is someone else around. From personal experience they are adapt at passing the buck.

Scrub that, I just spotted that you are an ex and a friend. So can you get the gas and electricity back on in his house and organise a bed downstairs or whatever it is he needs to be able to manage in his own home?