I thought National Trust were child and dog friendly places?

[copernicium]

Visited a NT property and feel quite put off visiting again...

"Move those children away, they are wild animals you know" (even though adults were standing much closer) ... I did give the man the benefit of the doubt on safety grounds even though I didn't see an issue.

But then we tried to enter the area allocated for picnics at 11:54 - to be told we couldn't enter before noon with a dog.

Ok fair enough, so we snuck up a corner to let DC eat a sandwich sitting in the pram - to be told no picnics allowed.

So then we go and hover near to the picnic area, to be told to move the dog away from the entrance until noon. It must have been 11:59 by now.

Finally, time to enter the "picnic area" - to be looked up and down, this time at the dog and the lady said quite abruptly "is that what you call a short lead?" It's a 90cm lead, and nowhere in the admission details is this mentioned. She was trying to turn us away from the area because of the length of the dogs lead. Finally won that argument and allowed to pass.

By this point DC are very hangry so we pass through to the picnic area as quickly as possible, for a lady to stop us and say DC must move to the centre of the path in case they fall on the flowers and ruin them. They were walking quietly and sensibly, holding our hands, with no hint that they might suddenly run or fall on the flowers.

I know it was only a few comments, but it just felt like I couldn't do anything right all day, and that DC and dog were both very unwelcome. Arm I going to regret having membership?

This hasn’t been my experience thankfully. I think you should write to the manager. They are volunteers mostly and clearly need some ‘retraining’.

I am not really happy about this move to encourage dogs. I’m allergic to dogs and want a dog free zone. I want to look at buildings and flowers not be accosted by some fuckwits dog. Dogs have no place in cafes or buildings or shopping areas. They are animals.

If this is the NT place in Sevenoaks, we visit several times a year with our DC and have been warned once or twice to stay away from the Deer during the start of the rut (October I think). The staff/volunteers always seem very friendly. I’ve been to a couple of places where we’ve been asked to ensure the DC do not touch or pluck flowers etc which is a bit annoying.

Now I think of it, I very rarely see dogs at any of the NT places we visit. I would have thought it was a good idea to keep them away from deer though?

The picnic rule seems odd. What is the significance of 12 noon and why can’t dogs enter area before that time

Was it Dunham Massey? I have been with kids and the park keepers were quite strict with them about staying on the path and not approaching the deer. I saw them confronting dog owners in a similar way, but to be fair I also saw lots of people letting their kids and dogs get too close when no staff were around and people trying to touch the deer; I was quite shocked at the behaviour of some other groups so can see why the staff are so strict. It does clearly say on the website that dogs are only welcome if well-behaved and that they should be on a short lead.

I remember signs being up saying no food outside of the cafe/ picnic areas, presumably so no food is dropped where deer could then eat it in the main park, but I didn’t realise that the picnic area didn’t open until noon. I can understand being annoyed about that as it seems reasonable to expect there be somewhere you can take small kids to have a snack before that time, although you were unreasonable to feed your child in the main park where the deer are. You should have gone back through towards the visitors centre and away from areas the deer can reach to eat if the picnic area wasn’t open yet.

Was it Dunham Massey? It’s a lovely place but the staff / volunteers are a bloody nightmare, they definitely hate kids there ime.

Xpost

12 is a normal time for lunch though. Do you normally eat lunch that much earlier?

Never had an experience like this and I’m a seasoned nt member.

I do think we’ve been badly treated during the pandemic however with no priority for very limited visitation slots. But never had a bad customer service experience. I don’t have a dog but have seen many many happy dogs on my visits.

I've done loads of NTs and they've always been very nice although they do like to stick to the rules. I think its because they're volunteers and they worry about being told off.
Personally I LOVE seeing dogs around, children not so much.

No dogs before noon is more than fair enough. Gives people who don't want to be around dogs a chance to use the picnic area and actually it gives dog owners the better end of the deal. If you're frightened of dogs you have to have lunch in the morning which is less than ideal.

As for the deer, every NT property I've been to that has deer has very clear signs telling visitors to keep their distance. Deer are wild animals and although they seem to tolerate the visitors well, they can (and occasionally do) injure people. They also carry ticks. Every time I'm at one of these properties there are always families allowing their children way too close to the animals and even sometimes letting them try and touch the deer. It must be exasperating for the staff when people think the rules can't possibly apply to their little cherubs. Perhaps they were more worried about the children than the adults because of the greater risk to them of being hurt.

So you were asked not to get to close to the deer or flower beds and wasn't allowed to go in the picnic area before noon.
So you could of given your children a snack and that would of solved the problem 🤷‍♂️

Was this one person? I would complain if I were you, they are obviously not suited to the job they are doing. The National Trust might be able to find them a role where they don't have to deal with people!

I find the NT surprisingly dog unfriendly, but everywhere we’ve been has been amazingly child friendly. Didn’t even turn a hair with DC (not mine) scrambling all over ancient Egyptian artefacts in the grounds.

I was on their behalf!

I was rudely pushed in front of in a NT cafe by a NT volunteer. I was so taken aback I didn't say anything but the woman behind the counter saw it, apologised and gave me a voucher for a cream tea for two. Result!

I think she was possibly at the end of her tether with said bombastic volunteer.

Most NT places are fine but there is a bit of a regimented feel in some and too much clock watching amongst the staff at times. Flexibility is something to be encouraged; not allowing you in until 12 on the dot was ridiculous.

They’re not very consistent with their rules about dogs. Thankfully the ones near us are perfectly happy to let dogs in the tea rooms and court yards but we’ve been caught out elsewhere and had to find somewhere else to sit. Despite there being an enormous orangery with hardly anyone in it and loads of space to let a dog sit under a table, Cliveden I’m looking at you.

This reminds me of a time that my ex-boyfriend and I went to an NT property years and years ago. We were about 19, and at the time he drove a heavily modded Corsa (like lots of lads in the early 2000s!). After pulling carefully into the carpark, a flustered woman with a clipboard rushes over and gestures for him to stop - ‘Are you members? MEMBERS? This carpark is for members! CLIIIIVE! Are they members?’ Clive came over, we showed our membership cards, and he waved us on. Mrs Clipboard stood there looking fuming. I don’t think the Corsa fit in with the aesthetic she wanted in her lovely carpark tbh

I think it can depend on the volunteer.
We joined a few years ago when our kids were much younger and I was always nervous about them (given a stuffy reputation I thought such places had ) but staff generally couldn't have been nicer engaging with them and trying to interest them in stuff, to the point I think they sometimes regretted, once they'd coaxed ds2 out of his shell, he never shut up with questions!

Our bad experience happened the other week at a Midlands one where an elderly volunteer on the door clashed with DH about face masks. He went about it all in the wrong way sadly and it was obvious his personal opinion affected his interaction and he kept trying to insist it was government rules when restrictions were lifted anyway and as DH pointed out politely that exemptions don't have to be proved. He was going to complain but not sure he did in the end. Spoilt it a bit for me really as I've always been passionate advocate of the the advantages of NT membership and how much us and the kids benefit from it.

Try again op at another place where you may get a better experience.

"he kept trying to insist it was government rules when restrictions were lifted anyway and as DH pointed out politely that exemptions don't have to be proved"

I understand it's frustrating but I do think NT and EH etc do have to extra cautious about face masks because their volunteers tend to be elderly.
In March 2020 we were at a NT the week before lockdown but already parts of the estate buildings were closed down because they were busy sending their volunteers home.

We visited a country home this week, not a NT, and they insisted that masks needed to worn in the house and tea rooms. No exceptions or exemptions

I think they are generally friendly, but they love a rule - the more obscure the better! And the rules are sometimes upheld by people who have let the dizzying heights of being given a clipboard go to their head.

@jesusmaryjosephandtheweedonkey that's exactly what I tried to do - put the DC in the pushchair and gave them a sandwich - and they told us off!

Definitely write and complain. I have never had anything like this and we have been family members for years. We go to lots of NT places and all have been family friendly with very nice helpful staff.

We generally have a good experience at NT properties with our DC aged 5&7. Some volunteers are a bit old skool and quite strict but I find I have to do quite a bit of ‘active and vocal parenting’ inside the houses, and in formal gardens etc. The rest is much more free range children. However, if someone were rude to me I would consider a gentle complaint. Mostly they are just trying to safeguard old and important properties that in some cases are crumbling. The overall vulnerability of the property does make a difference to their demeanour, I find, e.g. The Vyne tend to be more stressy but the place is clearly very delicate with humidity monitors everywhere.

The dog/picnic area thing does seem overly officious. But my 7yo is autistic and can read. He would be particularly bothered if he were anticipating a ‘dog free’ picnic and one appeared (he is absolutely terrified of dogs but can handle them in the vicinity as long as they are not breaking any rules).

@MyOtherProfile

Definitely write and complain. I have never had anything like this and we have been family members for years. We go to lots of NT places and all have been family friendly with very nice helpful staff.

Oh don't complain. They're all volunteers. Forget it and move on.

Visited a lot of NT and EH sites over the years, and worked for EH for a long time. Not just saying this because I worked for them but have genuinely always found EH to be more relaxed and family friendly than NT, and far less strict and not so zealous with rules.

Been to many, hundreds of nt properties over last 20 years with and without small kids, and with and without a dog, never experienced anything like this. I've seen others warned for having dogs on flexi leads (short leads is the rule) and usually dogs are not allowed in the houses or gardens but are in woods, parklands etc. I've seen families told us dd for letting dc run amongst geese too. Cant comment on picnics because we usually eat in the courtyard cafes