Teachers... Is this normal? What do I do, if anything?

[opulentalligatorsalt]

This is not a teacher bashing thread at all. It really really isn't. Please don't let's turn it into that.

Last year, my son (year 1) had a teacher who I didn't ever really get to know due to covid. She seemed fine though and I was very hands off during the year. Only met her once or twice for parents eve and the odd time when my son had misbehaved a bit or had an issue during the day.

His end of year reports was fine. He's meeting expectations or exceeding. I was pretty happy.

But then I got his books back at the end of the year. Every single book has been scribbled on the front of, every one. On some of the books he's written silly things like poo. The work inside the books is pretty shoddy at times, again he's sort of scribbled a bit on some pages. Lots of silly faces written in the corners of pages and at the back of the book.

His work is always untidy, and very few pieces are what I was expecting given that he's apparently at the expected level. He's only ever had a few pieces of written homework to do, but when we do, I work with him to get them neat and tidy. It's an effort for him as he is dyspraxic, but I was still quite surprised at how messy his books was. It looked to me like he wasn't ever really trying.

Only a handful of pieces of work seemed to be marked. I'm not sure if this is usual? Perhaps it is, I just don't know!

He had a folder of worksheets he had done. I would say that 50% of the worksheets, he had just defaced. Either not completing them correctly, just sort of doodling or scribbling on them. On comprehension style sheets he'd answered the questions in a really silly way, with stupid answers like "she did that because she's dumb".

Like I said, this is not a teacher bashing thread. I know full well that my child is the one who is doing this in the first place. He absolutely shouldn't be writing things like this, and he should be trying his best as much as he can. I know a lot of fault is with him.

But equally... Is this ok? Is this what it's like? Is this what school work that comes home is like? Is it normal? He is still only 6 so I'm not expecting miracles, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't shocked and a bit disappointed. It's not nice to feel disappointed in the work your child brings home from school 😟. I made sure we gave him lots of praise for all the decent bits he bought home but they really were few and far between.

I have obviously spoken to him about some parts of it, the doodling and just not doing th worksheets at all. We've talked about what's appropriate and about always trying our best. He seemed a bit embarrassed about it but I don't want to dwell on it too much.

I would like to speak to his new teacher at the start of the year and just say I was quite upset with the state of some of the things he had done. I will not be blaming the teacher, as I don't think it's worth it. She left the school at the end of this year anyway. I more want to know the same thing won't happen again, and that we can work together to help him improve his attitude a bit. I know that a lot of the 'blame' lies with him for doing this stuff in the first place.

But like I said, I'm not a teacher. Maybe I'm expecting too much? Maybe this is normal? It's an ofsted outstanding school but because of the pandemic we have been very distant and only been into the actual building three times during reception. So I feel quite cut off from it all. Cut off from how much I should speak to the teacher, what we should expect, what's normal etc.

Absolutely someone should. As a pp said, we have checked and marked every single piece of work as normal despite covid. I don’t understand how a teacher could know where children are and what their next steps are if they don’t do this. Teaching in the pandemic has been hard and different but feedback and marking are basics. Did you say the teacher has now left?

This is not acceptable. Children should be taught to value their work. We have a general book (for notes and the like) which isn’t marked and the children doodle all over and write nonsense. The rest are pristine. Marked properly. The whole not marking for Covid is a joke. We spend all day with the children breathing in our faces. Touching their books is the least of our worries.

Personally I wouldn’t go to the head. I would take some photos and email them to the new teacher. Explain your concern and go from their. It will filter to the SLT anyway and then they can sort out their book scrutiny policy.

Go from there!

Yes, his teacher has left. She was youngish so not retired. Left for another job I assume, not sure if teaching or not.

This has been really helpful. I genuinely wasn't sure if I was expecting too much (from him and the school!).

Trust me, I have had stern words with him BUT equally he is only six. I think that if he'd been firmly pulled up on it the first time, he wouldn't have carried on. Surely that's part of a teachers job? To ensure kids are doing their best, not coasting and doing what is asked of them? He's not defiant or disobedient and school have never suggested any issues with him not doing his work properly.

So I think they either didn't know of didn't care.

@AleynEivlys

Probably a stupid question but are you sure they aren't his books from Reception? Our school (for some reason) hands out the books a year late - so we got our Reception books at the end of the term just gone and will get the Year 1 books at the end of Year 2 etc.

This is also a great point. We do the same actually! Eg all of this year's books will stored until the end of next year and then sent home. This is in case of Ofsted, who occasionally ask to see work from the previous year if there is a discrepancy in data, or a particular year group/cohort's progression and attainment.

We've been marking work as normal throughout the pandemic and random books are also regularly taken by members of the Senior Leadership Team for scrutiny.

There shouldn't be large amounts of unmarked work in a book or a folder at any time and I always double check that all marking is up to date before sending work home at the end of the year.

Silly scribbles (poo etc) should definitely have been picked up on. I would have either torn out the page/worksheet or made a written comment to show that I had spoken to the child and that I had told them that it was unacceptable. I wouldn't expect it to happen a 2nd time.

I would say that work produced by a child working independently in a class of 30 is quite likely to be untidier than that produced by a child working in a quiet room with a supportive parent sat next to them throughout the task.

It’s not all your boy’s fault. Thing is, kids really like having their work marked, they like getting feedback and seeing smiley faces etc for a job well done. It’s basic human nature that quality will drop if you think nobody cares or is ever going to look. Particularly if you’re six! I would definitely have a conversation with his new teacher and mention that you’d like half termly updates on how his presentation is progressing. You could take some books to show her and also some work where he has tried his best. I’d find this helpful if I were his class teacher.

They are definitely his Year 1 books. We have his reception ones here too. They are much better and more consistently marked. His work was of a higher quality.

@cariadlet you are right, I definitely don't expect his independent work to be as good as it would be if he were sat with me. Generally though the independent work is the stuff he's either defaced or done stupidly. On one, in response to the question "what do you think she will do next" he's just written "she will diye, she is an idiyut". I almost cried when I read that, I didn't even know he knew the word idiot and I was really sad that he was even thinking along these lines. It felt a bit dark 😟. The rest are more 'lighthearted' and just silly. But honestly, he's written 'poo' on worksheets and on the front of his exercise books. Surely you'd notice that and tell a kid off and get them to rub it off?! Surely!

Thank you @JimmyGrimble all your advice has been really good. Perhaps we as parents have been a little bit too uninvolved. We will definitely be checking up on him more.

And you are right about it not just being his fault. He's still very little and hasn't even done a full year of school thanks to covid.

Doesn't sound right at all, my dd has just finished year 1 and all her workbooks are marked and tidy,.
Some of her school work had mistakes in it but they were all marked and corrected.

I u sweat and your concern but I do think parents can sometimes check out of the educational performance of their kids under the guise of it being the teachers job. Teachers generally do their best to teach and get kids to engage but there are 30 children in the class all with differing needs, levels and methods of learning that they have to navigate on top of lesson planning, marking and monitoring - not to mention behaviour issues. I would raise it and work with the next teacher but the first port of call for me would be a discussion with your son about what your expectations are. He’s so young and will likely respond to your feedback about standards of work and engagement as in class the teacher has to not only contend with other pupils needs but also competing with his friends influences. It absolutely is the teachers job to monitor progress etc but if he is within the norms then perhaps it is your expectations he is not meeting rather than the schools.

I am a secondary teacher. We are not expected to mark every piece of work but we do mark regularly (probably every 2-3 weeks for KS3 and every 1-2 weeks for ks4). I do find doodling/scribbling in books but it is quite unusual and students would be pulled up on it. In bad cases (e.g. something offensive or just repeat offenders) I have been know to send a photocopy home!
Dd has just finished year 2. Her handwriting isn't great but her books are nicely presented in terms of sheets glued in, dates and titles underlined with a ruler and no doodles or scribble. Every single page of every single book is marked. I honestly don't know how her teacher has managed this, I was seriously impressed!
So yes, I would think it is quite unusual for your ds' books to be in that condition.

I think I would reiterate to your son the expectations going into year 2. What you expect and that you know he is capable of neater work without the silly comments.
I would probably arrange a meeting / phone call with the new class teacher at the beginning of the year. I would be worried that the old teacher hasnt flagged this up and it could become a habit throughout year 2. Approach it so she is aware and can suggest ways you work together with him on this
I would definitely approach it from the view that year 2 is a new start and a chance to improve going forward

@SionnachRua

Personally I'd just have a stern word with your child - look at the books, say how that isn't acceptable. Drop the teacher an email at the start of the year saying that you know your child was doing silly things to his schoolwork last year and you really want to nip that in the bud, so if it happens again at school please to let you know.

If you don’t want to make a thing of this (and as the teacher has left, you might not) I would do this. If you think the head should know, do raise it with them, though. Either would be acceptable.

I think I'll give the new teacher a chance. I have no reason to doubt her yet. I'll ask to meet/speak to her early on and discuss the concerns. Hopefully that'll be enough. Along with my discussions with him.

@Sittingonabench you have some very valid points. We hadn't checked out but I did just leave him to it. I didn't ever want to be 'that parent' so actively avoided talking to his teacher. Like you said, she has 29 other children to look after so I wasn't ever sure when to raise things with her or not. So generally I didn't raise anything 🤦‍♀️. We read with him at home but that's all really.

No I would say that’s unusual and not acceptable. If pupils graffiti their books or even doodle on them, they would generally be asked to do the piece of work again or cover their book (or whatever would be age appropriate.)

Different teachers have different standards and it sounds like this one just didn’t think doodles etc were that big a deal. Also when teachers know they are leaving a school (often months in advance due to recruitment procedures in teaching) they can sometimes “give up” or just don’t care as they are counting down the days. I don’t agree with either attitude- but that’s how it can be sometimes. Most primary schools have a “meet the teacher” or settling in meeting quite early on usually- definitely address it there with his new teacher, or ask for a meeting/ phone call if not.

As a Head Teacher I would be horrified if children’s books were in that state. I would be having a serious conversation with the teacher.

You wouldn't get that kind of nonsense tolerated at private school.

Can you afford to send him there instead of what passes for state education these days?

@viviennedoesitagain this isn't an argument about state vs private. Enough teachers have answered this thread to say it's not usual or acceptable. We can't afford private, no. But I also believe he can get a good education within the state sector.

I teach in a Pupil Referral Unit and we would not tolerate that at all. I’d be speaking to teachers if students’ books were like that. We teach them to take a pride in their work and expect teachers to tackle it with students. If the teacher is leaving it may be that this has been a concern. Keep a close eye with his new teacher.

The part that is strange to me is not seeing the work as parents all year until it's too late to intervene.

I'm not in the UK and my son just finished year 1 in a system where they only start school at 6. He got homework in the main two subjects every day since the very beginning. I gather that's something the UK has moved away from (or never had?) at that age.

Anyway the homework is in the same workbooks and copybooks they use in school. So they did page 27 as a lesson in school that day and then page 28 is the homework. Or a worksheet – they all come home for filing every half-term.

So I know there may be strong feelings against homework, and with reason, but the main point here is we would have seen the messing about the very first time.

Pretty much everything is marked by the teacher too. Of course the school hours are shorter too (though with early starts), I presume that helps allow the teacher to get things done.

DDs primary school only send half the books home, the others go to the new teachers. So you only see Topics, Start of The Day, Art and worksheet folders. Everything else goes to the new teacher. You see English, Maths and Science at Parents Evening though.

Some of DDs books (just finished year 2) are the same, scribbles but she's below expectations in all areas so kind of expected.

Homework here is a maths sheet sent home once a week and two reading books a week. Nothing else (and I'm fine with that!).

Even before covid it was like that, but this year and most of last, things haven't been going to and fro from school because of infection control.

We haven't been allowed in school since March 2020. So not seen his classroom or any books until they came home at the end of the year. I think this has been the same all over the UK. Hopefully this coming year we will get a chance to actually see his work during the year. I think we usually would. At the very least we'd usually see it twice a year at parents evenings.

@viviennedoesitagain

You wouldn't get that kind of nonsense tolerated at private school.

Can you afford to send him there instead of what passes for state education these days?

Is that really necessary? When there has been a succession of (state) teachers saying no, this is not normal, no they would not tolerate this, Head Teachers having systems for checking pupils' books etc. Please don't try to derail with your Private Is Superior agenda.

Not your sons fault at all - he's so young!! but sounds like teacher and as you said at the beginning you guys as parents perhaps haven't given him enough education input this year - I would go in, express your concern and ask how you can work with them.