Man sexually assaulted by two women

[SantaSue]

Not sure if there is already a thread on this but I'll be interested to see the outcome of this case:
www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/crime/two-teenage-women-19-appear-at-portsmouth-court-charged-with-sexually-assaulting-man-by-slapping-his-bottom-3329006

@OneEpisode Why the dig about "sexy lady" if you weren't being judgemental?

I remember the 50s, have a look at photos of people like Diana Dors or Sabrina, I'm sure you'd say they'd gone for the "sexy lady" look even if they weren't necessarily in pink. The woman who lived in the house opposite my family in the 60s dressed just like that, long peroxide blonde hair, very tight clothes, stilettos. As a child I thought she was incredibly glamorous.

OldTinHat

I had my arse groped by an 80 odd year old man two years ago after I helped him cross a road. I reported that to the police. All I got was an apology letter written by his granddaughter. Nothing further. Now THAT was a sexual assault so as PPs have said, one rule for men and another for women.“

Unfortunately, sexually aggressive behaviour can be a symptom of some forms of dementia. No less unpleasant for you but perhaps not a straightforward assault so I can understand why police may have been reluctant to pursue.

It's also different to a sexual assault during an affray that resulted in someone sustaining ABH.

@PegasusReturns, sorry, but I don’t agree with you. If we are going to take sexual assault seriously, it needs to be across the board.

Hi ancienf, I don’t know what it is about my description, of the clothes the accused chose for a scheduled court appearance, that offends you! Please don’t @ me as I will be muting the thread as we are derailing it!
I only joined in the thread because a pp made a reference to gender non-conforming. I understand that the clothes the defendants chose would not have been read as androgynous or masculine in the 1950s or now. But I wasn’t around in the 59s or 60s, though I’m sure your neighbour was lovely. Perhaps you could start a different thread about that.

@RoseRedRoseBlue that’s fine you don’t have to agree with me, but for clarity I have not at any point suggested that sexual assault not be treated seriously.

In fact I have explicitly stated the contrary.

[quote PegasusReturns]@RoseRedRoseBlue that’s fine you don’t have to agree with me, but for clarity I have not at any point suggested that sexual assault not be treated seriously.

In fact I have explicitly stated the contrary.[/quote]
You have suggested it should be treated less seriously if the recipient is male.

@OneEpisode

Hi ancienf, I don’t know what it is about my description, of the clothes the accused chose for a scheduled court appearance, that offends you! Please don’t @ me as I will be muting the thread as we are derailing it! I only joined in the thread because a pp made a reference to gender non-conforming. I understand that the clothes the defendants chose would not have been read as androgynous or masculine in the 1950s or now. But I wasn’t around in the 59s or 60s, though I’m sure your neighbour was lovely. Perhaps you could start a different thread about that.

Your judgement offends me. People, men women trans or anything else, can wear what they like, no need for snarky comments like "sexy lady."

Well it would be great if every bloke who slaps a woman on the arse lands up in court too....

@Jackgrealishscurtains

Well it would be great if every bloke who slaps a woman on the arse lands up in court too....

The courts would never be closed 😕

You're doing exactly what the newspaper did. Going for the click bait.

There's not enough detail to judge if this is ridiculous and trivial and wouldn't happen if a woman had complained.

We know nothing about the man who complained and whether he was vulnerable in some way or about the other woman that was attacked.
We don't know what the seriousness of the affray was or GBH and in what context it happened.

Let's put this scenario forward. Disabled and mentally ill man out for a walk with his carer. Two women slap his arse ,maybe make some lewd comments. His carer intervenes and gets beaten up.

You still think it's ok and should have never gone to court?

It's also possible he was a 6ft ,able , rugby player and the women thought it would be a laugh or did it as a dare. Another women still got hurt,by them. I'd find it unlikely though , considering the risk and power balance going after such a man.

You have suggested it should be treated less seriously if the recipient is male

Yes but suggesting something should be treated as “less” doesn’t mean you can’t still treat it seriously. It’s perfectly possible to have degrees of seriousness. That’s a well established concept in our legal system

Yes, I get that, given I work in it.

Yes but suggesting something should be treated as “less” doesn’t mean you can’t still treat it seriously. It’s perfectly possible to have degrees of seriousness. That’s a well established concept in our legal system

And how do you think the statutes should be worded to ensure sexual crimes against men are taken “less” seriously?

"Sexual assault" my arse.

(Pun fully intended)

@OneEpisode

Hi ancienf, I don’t know what it is about my description, of the clothes the accused chose for a scheduled court appearance, that offends you! Please don’t @ me as I will be muting the thread as we are derailing it! I only joined in the thread because a pp made a reference to gender non-conforming. I understand that the clothes the defendants chose would not have been read as androgynous or masculine in the 1950s or now. But I wasn’t around in the 59s or 60s, though I’m sure your neighbour was lovely. Perhaps you could start a different thread about that.

I wasn't talking about clothes. I get read as male because of my body shape and how I move in space. Lots of women dress like I do and don't get read as male. I embrace my butchness but it still pisses me off that feminists feel that its OK to pick women apart to see if they look female enough. I felt defective for a really long time, it sucks to have that happen in feminist spaces too

@RoseRedRoseBlue

So did I. So I guess that’s 1:1

And how do you think the statutes should be worded to ensure sexual crimes against men are taken “less” seriously?

Statues don’t need to be worded differently. Sentencing guidelines have always taken into account the characteristics of the victim, in particular their vulnerability.

Women are more vulnerable than men. That’s not contentious.

Well, we should all be grateful that you no longer do then. All the emoticons in the world won’t change the fact that nobody is agreeing with you.

I can completely understand the frustration at the inequality of treatment here, but I also think it is in no way acceptable for women to harass a man (though in the usual course of nature, a man would be quite capable of physically defending himself against women, this does not include any mental issues he may be facing, which should be taken into account). In this new world we can’t be sure who was actually a man or a woman in the whole attack though, which renders the whole report pointless.

One thing I am telling myself however, is that given the way the UK courts operate by precedent, does it matter so much right now, if the first person to get a judgement that an unwanted slap on the rear (or anywhere else) is sexual harassment is “male”? Women have wanted this for years, had no chance of it becoming recognised, but if a man speaks up and wins his case, we can all pile in, once it’s established case law? No one can say our claims are different because we’re female, as that would obviously be discrimination. It’s a crappy way to get justice for women (and I’m sure the person in court wouldn’t be having a great time) but better than nothing at all. And yes, I am scraping the barrel here but we have to hijack what we can.

@RoseRedRoseBlue

You know it’s perfectly possible to disagree without launching a personal attack. I have said nothing disrespectful to you.

Regardless I don’t need people on this thread to validate my opinion, (although interestingly I don’t see anyone agreeing with you either) the law already does that: offences are treated more seriously when victims are vulnerable. As they should be.

@PegasusReturns I don’t see how it is a personal attack to say that I am glad you are no longer working in the Legal System if you think sexual assaults on men should be taken less seriously.

What was he wearing? Will his pants be held up in court I wonder

@Bambooshoot

I can completely understand the frustration at the inequality of treatment here, but I also think it is in no way acceptable for women to harass a man (though in the usual course of nature, a man would be quite capable of physically defending himself against women, this does not include any mental issues he may be facing, which should be taken into account). In this new world we can’t be sure who was actually a man or a woman in the whole attack though, which renders the whole report pointless.

One thing I am telling myself however, is that given the way the UK courts operate by precedent, does it matter so much right now, if the first person to get a judgement that an unwanted slap on the rear (or anywhere else) is sexual harassment is “male”? Women have wanted this for years, had no chance of it becoming recognised, but if a man speaks up and wins his case, we can all pile in, once it’s established case law? No one can say our claims are different because we’re female, as that would obviously be discrimination. It’s a crappy way to get justice for women (and I’m sure the person in court wouldn’t be having a great time) but better than nothing at all. And yes, I am scraping the barrel here but we have to hijack what we can.

Re your first paragraph, the problem with the man being quite capable of physically defending himself is that he is likely to end up being the one in trouble. My violent exDIL would goad my son to hit her back and she'd get him arrested.

Life gets so complicated doesn'tit.