Anyone know Oxford well?

[roaringwater]

DD is applying to Oxford. We have the opportunity to spend a day in the city next month and I'd like her to get a sense of her bearings a bit, especially as she hasn't made a firm decision as to which college she will apply. She is on a university access programme through her sixth form and they were supposed to have a week in Oxford this summer but it all moved online because of the current circumstances.

If you know the city well, can you give me some suggestions for an itinerary? We can arrive early and stay late. I know it's not usually possible to visit colleges but other suggestions of places to see / routes to take would be welcome.

Thank you for your advice.

My best friends date from my Oxford days (I’m now late 40s). It was eye-opening, I won’t lie, and I sometimes found it tiresome that some people (not all) found my background ‘exotic’ and had never met anyone like me before, but I’m a reasonably-open-minded person, and I adored what I was studying, and that, for the first time in my life, it was ok, even good, to be clever.

Just got back yesterday from two days taking my DD around Oxford. She is applying this autumn. We explained she is a prospective student, and all the colleges we looked at let us in to have a good look around, although not inside buildings. I think it is only fair, since everything will be virtual again this year. We looked at Peters, Exeter, Univ, Teddy Hall, Catz, Anne's.
I know Oxford well, her sister graduated there two years ago, I work there regularly still, with current undergraduates, and also studied there in the 80s.
It is a fantastic city in which to be a student. What does your DD like to do socially? I agree with other posters that if she is sporty, choose one that is near relevant facilities. Personally I would not recommend taking up rowing though, it was such a time drain!
Don't worry about the state school thing. In our family we are all from comprehensives. It's a non - issue, there will be plenty from similar background, whatever that is, as well as international students where the whole private/state stuff is pretty meaningless anyway. Unis like Bath, Durham and St Andrews have just as high private intake and nobody seems to worry about that much!

A pretty strong reason for my choice of college at the other place was because the porters were lovely on a similar mooch about day! I’m only being partly flippant - it does give you a feel for the culture of the college.

@roaringwater

Genuine question for Oxford alumni who came from state school / working class backgrounds (please be assured I'm using this term for want of a better one, I hate class-ism in all its forms) - how easy was it to fit in socially?

It's one of the (many) worries I have about this entire venture.

In the interests of full disclosure, I was an 18 year old over-achiever who had never experienced failure until I was rejected by Oxford in the early 90s. I admit to a teeny bit of a chip on my shoulder and some deep-rooted teen self-esteem issues, all of which I'm trying very hard not to project on to DD, who is not me.

Fine. I was state school but middle class, most of my friends were state school and a mix of middle and working class. And I didn't feel I didn't fit in socially with those who did go to private schools (after all private schools isn't just Eton etc) Mostly we came together on the basis of shared interest in our subject and extra curricular activities. There are people who fit the extreme stereotype (mostly found at the Union and drinking societies) but you can have an active social life without ever coming across them. People who were massively into clubbing did find Oxford a bit challenging as it is not the best scene but they would often just go into London at the weekend.

Even if you do end up not telling with people at your college there are plenty of university wide clubs and some peoole have a social life based on that while others are focused on college based social life.

This is not to say that everyone fits in easily. Some people do have a tough time and people drop out. But I would not recommend dismissing Oxford because that might happen to you, after all you could also struggle at any university. If she has the grades, loves the subject, and think s the college/tutorial system would suit her, then what is to be lost by applying?

Agree with @terrywynne, what's to lose by applying?
OK, she might 'fail' to get in, but loads of people do (our eldest did), it's a life lesson.
Also, Oxford has a really low dropout rate, and anyway it's always possible to switch to a different uni after a year if you really don't like it.

I went from a state school/no uni family. I was prepared (sort of) for poshos and found them quite funny day to say, it was fine. Wasn’t as prepared for the very well off middle classes who made up the bulk of the students where I was and had all come from deeply tedious Home Counties and seemed to have skipped straight to middle age. The worst thing was they didn’t realise everyone didn’t live like them! That was just a fluke at my college though I think, I had friends at other colleges who had a lot more of a congenial bunch.

I think there was a lot I didn’t understand (like in your daughter’s case maybe that there are “big” law firms and how they recruit before people even do their finals) but day to day and culturally it was fine. No one made me feel crap about being less well off etc, far from it. There are some dinosaurs but most of the lecturers etc there now are probably much younger and more similar to your daughter.

Oh and re: self esteem/rejection - I reckon the admissions process is madly subjective and probably just down to how well you could chat to your interviewer. It’s a different era, and as you say your daughter will have a different time. I would suggest that - if she isn’t already - she gets very comfortable talking to “grown ups” about a variety of things and reads the news. Also get her to practice saying “that’s an interesting question, can I have a minute to think about that” . And remember they want her to succeed, just like you do. Sorry it was a knock for you at the time.

Get her to make a shortlist of colleges she likes the look of (though be aware that the former women's colleges are mostly a bit of a walk out of the city centre in various directions) and make sure you go and have a look at them and the faculty. In between you'll pass all sorts of interesting places that you can pop into and look at. I happened to walk round my college at the end of a long open day of visiting different ones and fell in love with it - it was chance that I ever went in.
She should also look at which tutors are on the staff at different colleges. If there's an area she already knows she's particularly interested in, then she could apply to a college where she'll be taught by a real specialist in that area.
The thing that unites everyone at Oxford is that they're bright and really want to be there. They'll all have been the brightest at their schools, whatever those schools were like - and that can be hard to adjust to whatever your background. At the same time, it's wonderful - everyone is interested in similar things and you don't need to worry if what's cool any more because you're all nerds in some way .

I am doing the same with my DD next week. I am originally from Oxford and went to Mansfield College. That's got an over 90% state school intake and is a wonderful place to study. It's small though. DD doesn't want Mansfield as she doesn't want to be "known". Her short list is St Catz, LMH, Hertford, Somerville and Wadham.

Great to know there's the option to look around some of the college's if you're very polite to the porters! I'm looking forward to it as a day out, one way or another. I agree that it's a case of nothing ventured, nothing gained. I feel as though all bets are off for this year's applicants - their GCSEs fell foul of COVID and then Year 12 has been disrupted too. Oh well, onwards and upwards!

If she enjoys nature, I recommend a wander along Addison's walk and past the deer park at Magdalen (which has a strong reputation for its law offer, I believe; I was mostly there for the deer).

A general rule for orienting yourself is that east of Cornmarket Street (along Broad Street and the High Street) tends to be the 'old' Oxford and has most of the colleges whereas west of Cornmarket Street (along George Street and Queen Street) is generally more modern and where you go for shopping and eating out.

In my experience, the main danger for people from a state school background was the big fish / small pond thing. If you come from a comprehensive where no one has gone to Oxbridge in years and you're easily the brightest pupil there, it can be really tricky suddenly actually being at Oxbridge where (by definition) getting into Oxbridge isn't a big deal. Whether that's an issue just depends on the individual and their confidence. Most adjust fine!

Definitely agree about practising talking about your subject and being prepared to ask for a moment to think or for the question to be repeated.

The system is not perfect but I think there is a lot more awareness now of biases, subjectivity, intangible benefits of coming from a school with a track record of getting people into Oxbridge etc . Tutors know in advance now whether your postcode has deprivation markers, average exam results for your school etc. They get sent on compulsory interview training run by the university before they can interview. And compared with a few decades ago there are more efforts to ensure that college choice doesn't affect getting a place. So where before if you were the 11th best at a college with 10 places for that subject you wouldn't get in (but at another college you might have been 5th best and got in), now there is more centralised discussion (how it is done varies by subject) so if you're 11th best at that college but they think they have such a strong cohort that 11th best is still amazing, they will try and get another college to interview you. Similarly, if you are borderline and look good on paper but seem to be struggling in interview, another college might interview you to see whether they get something more from you.

Disclaimer on my last : I don't know law specifically but history for example used to have a nightly meeting during interviews where tutors for all colleges would discuss applicants across the whole university (whether things have changed again in the last few years I don't know)

I'd start at the Law faculty at St Cross and then do a tour of the nearer colleges - so New College, Teddy Hall, Queen's, Univ, Magdalen and St Hilda's. Then walk down the river into Christchurch meadows past the boat houses. Walk back via Christchurch, Corpus, Merton, Oriel into Radcliffe Square (for the camera and Old Bod). Brasenose, Lincoln , Jesus, Exeter and the Covered Market. Then Trinity, Balliol, St Johns, Somerville, Keble, Mansfield and back to St Cross.

I know that sounds like a lot but central Oxford is very small and some of the colleges are rather on top of each other so it is a very doable walk. It will also give you a feel for the size of colleges and the differences between old and new and ex womens etc. Also worth looking to see which have good law libraries (so you won't be fighting over books in the Law Bod) and also if she has an interest in particular areas which have known experts in their field.

The park and ride will get you into the centre of Oxford then most of it you can do on foot.

I agree that you should get a shortlist of colleges together then go for a wander and get a feel for it all.

The museums and the shopping centre are very good but you can explore those if she goes to study there.

How exciting. I love Oxford!

Dsis and I both went to Oxford from a crap northern comprehensive that did nothing to help us prepare for uni in general let alone Oxford applications.
There was some snobbery but it wasn't widespread and we made loads of great friends.
I'd really encourage your DD to give it a go.
Having said that, Law is particularly intense, I think they still do Mods after the first 2 terms of first year, whereas most subjects have the big exams at the end of the 3rd term. (Disclaimer - I did not do Law)
If she's very studious then great but if she's after a more balanced experience then she might decide another uni suits her better.

Oh and if your DD gets in - always be polite to porters and bedders (although why on earth you wouldn’t be is a separate thread). They can totally save your bacon when living in!

Oh, yes. Law libraries are important. Faculty closes early, as does bod (comparatively). A good college law library will be open access 24/7 - she will need it (or at least, I've never met a law student who hasn't needed to fall back on all night opening - something to do with torts?!)

@Slothkin

Oh and if your DD gets in - always be polite to porters and bedders (although why on earth you wouldn’t be is a separate thread). They can totally save your bacon when living in!

Scouts! Bedders are the other place, and poss Durham..?

State school, poor middle class background: I applied to and was accepted at a former women’s college, with a good state school record, and I found my tribe very easily. I don’t think you need to be worried. Making friends is one thing, but I found learning all the social subtleties and etiquette quite the learning curve!

I imagine it still varies quite a bit by college, though. I had a friend from a working class background at one of the more public school colleges - she had a big group of college friends, but there was a real sense of divide between them and the public school set. No animosity - they simply led different lives, while living and studying side by side. Conversely, I felt a bit sorry for one of the Eton boys at my college, who had applied to Oriel and got pooled to my college. He spent all his free time outside of college, with his old school friends or at the Union, and never really settled in to college life.

If she wants to target a traditional college for the perks of lower accommodation costs, bursaries etc., then I’d suggest St Johns could be worth a look. It struck me as best of both worlds, when I was there.

Didn’t get a place as an undergrad but did as a postgrad, so please remind your daughter you get more than one chance.

Learn from my mistake and opt for a big college. Colleges are small communities in a small town and can become very claustrophobic.

Good luck to your daughter, you must be so proud of her.

I did this exact thing with my daughter yesterday, same subject. DM me if you want to know more. Bloody knackered today though, can hardly move

@TerrifiedandWorried Ha ha, we did 40,000 steps in our two days! Hugh's to Iffley Road Sports Centre is quite a slog.
OP, happy to talk via DM also (relatively new to MN, didn't know it was possible!)
Me and mine are all science subjects but I was close friends with a lawyer back in the day.