Did I handle this right with DD?

[Chocolateemergency]

Was sitting on the floor changing DD2’s nappy, DD1 (3) asked for a snack and I said yep no problem let me just finish this. Carried on with what I was doing and DD1 walked over to me and smacked me round the head.

I asked her why she had done that, she said she didn’t know so I sent her to her bedroom. I followed straight up, quickly put DD2 in her cot, then went into DD1 and explained that she was having a 3 minute time out in her room to think about why she hit mummy.

I stood outside her bedroom door the whole time, she was crying and shouting for me to let her out. She could have opened the door herself the whole time.

According to DH I’m a bad mum and she’s going to hate me when she grows up.

@PanannyPanoo

If it's the first time she has hit I would have just said. " No hitting" firmly. I don't like time out. Don't think that bedrooms should ever be used as a punishment. I don't think scaring a child and making them upset/scared angry is a useful or productive way to help a child behave well.

I think a firm, stern, "No hitting" then, when you have finished what you are doing a cuddle and explanation about being kind and never hurting people is far more beneficial.

What do you do when they immediately hit you again though?

We went through all this with DD and stern warnings didn’t stop her from hitting, she would do it over and over again. We tried all the discussions, books (hands are not for hitting etc) and the only thing that worked was a warning and then time out.

@HandScreen

Many different theories on child development on what works and honestly most say a stern no and a cuddle is just confusing and doesn’t work. A stern no and no cuddle maybe, depending on the child.

Most theorists say that an immediate punishment (like the op’s) is more likely to have a long term effect in stopping behaviours. Also children are seriously unlikely to feel ‘rejected’ after punishments like this. They know they did wrong and are usually crying to get a cuddle because they don’t want the punishment. After the punishment once they’ve had a chat through and then get a cuddle, they are absolutely fine.

Realistically it’s a rare child who will stop and not repeat unwanted behaviours from a stern no and immediate cuddle. That’s just confusing!! I see the effects of this all the time in my work, children unable to listen and uncontrollable crying/unwanted behaviours at being told no.

The point of time out is to calm down.

2/3 is exactly the right age to put in the work with regards to emotions like how to deal with jealousy and anger. It is annoying that mum can't help now but she has to learn and practice other ways to deal with that like using her words, sitting and waiting, fetching the wipes to speed things up etc I'm not saying that her reaction is unusual. It's unacceptable but typically because kids her age lack the brain development not to act impulsively.

Your h is not being kind by not disciplining her. She needs to learn not to do this by school age (4ish) so her peers don't give her a wide berth. She's not going to hate you for this. Learning this after everybody else has mastered it is even crueller because it will affect bonding with her peers.

Timeouts/naughty step/whatever you call it is fine.

But I'd have done it differently.

With my DD I do

1. Place on spot/step and say why she's there "You hit me over the head so you are going to sit here for 3 minutes and think about what you've done"
2. Set a timer for the amount of time using phone, and stand where the child can see you. The first few times I stood with my back to DD so I didn't react to her crying/screaming.
3. After the time get down to childs level tell them again why they were put on the spot/step, ask them to explain why they did it if they can. Tell them we don't do that and that they need to say sorry. After they say sorry, hugs and kisses and move on.
4. If they won't say sorry they sit for another minute until they say sorry.

My DDs 6 now and very rarely gets timeouts but aged 3 to 4 she had loads. I think it did the trick as it was only ever me she hit/kicked.

I do the whole bending down to their level asking for an explanation and an apology at the end of the time out. We’ll I would have if DH hadn’t stormed in there and under minded me.

For some reason I’m the only person she hits. I got hit yesterday as well. DH made a rule before that she loses her tv time if she hits so I did that yesterday. Went out and came home to DH letting her watch a film about penguins, can’t remember what it was called. He tried to excuse it because it wasn’t on “her channels”. He sees it as picking your battles but I see it that there are some things that need punishing and following through with.

Dd2 is 13months so I didn’t think it would be a jealousy thing still. I thought it was more of a 3 year old who can’t wait for anything thing.

@Chocolateemergency

I do the whole bending down to their level asking for an explanation and an apology at the end of the time out. We’ll I would have if DH hadn’t stormed in there and under minded me.

For some reason I’m the only person she hits. I got hit yesterday as well. DH made a rule before that she loses her tv time if she hits so I did that yesterday. Went out and came home to DH letting her watch a film about penguins, can’t remember what it was called. He tried to excuse it because it wasn’t on “her channels”. He sees it as picking your battles but I see it that there are some things that need punishing and following through with.

Dd2 is 13months so I didn’t think it would be a jealousy thing still. I thought it was more of a 3 year old who can’t wait for anything thing.

An explanation is too much to ask for at 3 - what do you want her to say/what's your objective in asking this?

Instead of asking a question she doesn't know how to answer, a firm explanation that we don't hit is more appropriate.

Your husband seems to be setting you up as the ‘bad guy’ and himself as the ‘good guy’.

Why is that?

Handled it very well imo and I wish I'd be more strict and followed through with punishments more often like that

My eldest was a stroppy madam at 3 but really it’s because she didn’t understand how to handle her emotions. She often just needed some time in her room to calm down and sometimes she’d just need holding in a big cuddle. I’d put money on it that there was some jealously with your 3yo and the little one and she lashed out at you because she couldn't express it. Mine was fine with her sister when she was a tiny baby but got much more jealous when she was older, more interesting and trying to steal her toys etc.

Dd2 is 13months so I didn’t think it would be a jealousy thing still. I thought it was more of a 3 year old who can’t wait for anything thing.

Sibling rivalry is al about jealousy and even though dd2 isn't a rival in many ways eg physically, she's a rival for your attention.

Just had another incident and again I’m being told I didn’t handle it right so I thought I’d see what you guys think again.

DD1 was playing with a toy. DD2 kept hitting and pulling DD1s trying to get to the toy. I pulled her off, told her no, told her it was naughty and reassured DD1 that I’d deal with it if she does it again.

I set the toy up so that they both could see it but DD2 wouldn’t be able to touch it. DD1 then went to bite DD2s finger, I said no and she told me it was pretend but then she actually bit her finger. I told her off, said it wasn’t nice. Then DD1 was holding DD2s wrist and was aggressively squeezing it.

I took the toy away and DD1 cried, went to DH. I told him to back me up and he just said well if you’re not going to deal with DD2 hitting and pulling her hair don’t escalate it when DD1 is naughty.

Am I wrong for thinking that a 13 month old doesn’t understand what she was doing wrong and therefore how you deal with them would be different to that of a 3 year old who has been intentionally naughty?

It sounds like your husband is being too lenient but that you have massively over expectations of a 3 year old.

3 isnt the age of a rational being who has intentions. It is the age of emotional learning where they need to learn how to regulation emotions. Making it an incredibly irrational age.

I do wonder though if there isnt some underlying anger towards her sister, having to wait in the first instance and having to change how she played with her toy, then running to Daddy who is on her side against Mummy who in her eyes takes the side of her sister against her

Its the prime ages (3 and a more mobile toddler) for sibling rivalry

You did right by setting the toy up so dd1 could play without dd2 interfering.

How is dd1's speech? She's rightly annoyed by dd2 and needs encouraging to use her words to express her anger. Was dd2 removed from the room or similar ? You can't do time out at her age but it would make dd1 feel better if you at least tell dd2 off so that she feels you're being fair.

I don't think you should have confiscated the toy from dd1 - just tell her to use kind hands or you will take it off her (a warning)

I think you probably made an error with this bit: ‘set the toy up so that they both could see it but DD2 wouldn’t be able to touch it’

If your eldest was playing nicely with the toy and the youngest was getting in the way you’d have been better to have removed the youngest or set up the eldest somewhere higher up where the youngest couldn’t interfere.

Biting from the 3yo needs dealing with but you’re expectations are too high if you think they’ll play nicely. The 1yo will be a massive irritant to the older one.

Biting from the 3yo needs dealing with but you’re expectations are too high if you think they’ll play nicely. The 1yo will be a massive irritant to the older one.

This. I also have 3yr old and a 1yr old (15 months) girls. The little one is so annoying to the older one when she grabs her things. She can’t be expected to share her toys or it creates more resentment towards her younger sister.

I try to just distract the 1 year old with something else or distract both of them towards a new toy, or a game I can play with them. I also give the same ‘consequence’ to both of them (time out in the corner) for hitting. Obviously means nothing to DD2 as she just sits for a second as I tell her it’s not kind to hit and to give her sister a hug to say sorry, but at least DD1 can see they’re being treated the same. It’s worked and DD1 is far more willing to share with DD2 now (although DD2 went through a phase of finding it funny to hit and then take herself off to sit in the corner )

I take toys away if either of them uses it to hit the other though.

Again thanks for the constructive feedback.

I think DD1s speech is amazing for a 3 year old, she is able to communicate herself better than some other children we know who are a year or two older than she is. I think perhaps this is my issue, I forget she’s younger than she portrays.

I didn’t take DD2 out of the room, but I did move her away. I have many times told DD1 to go sit at the table before, I’m not sure why I didn’t on this occasion but I’ll be sure to carry on with that going forward.

[quote HandScreen]@InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream That's completely wrong in terms of child psychology. Being firm about a behaviour then following up with a hug is exactly how to handle this situation.

Punishment, rejection, shame have really counterintuitive effects on children's behaviour, and are emotionally damaging,[/quote]
Psychology isn’t an exact science my dear

@Chocolateemergency

Again thanks for the constructive feedback.

I think DD1s speech is amazing for a 3 year old, she is able to communicate herself better than some other children we know who are a year or two older than she is. I think perhaps this is my issue, I forget she’s younger than she portrays.

I didn’t take DD2 out of the room, but I did move her away. I have many times told DD1 to go sit at the table before, I’m not sure why I didn’t on this occasion but I’ll be sure to carry on with that going forward.

I had a 3 year old (she is now 12) who was always advanced for her age in terms of speech (and intelligence) but always bang on with emotional stuff. Even now that side of her needs very careful managing.

She is still 3 coping with all the emotional overloading that comes with that - and sometimes being advanced with speech is a hindrance. She feels she should be able to tell you want bothers her but she cant put it into words which further feeds into her anger. She is learning how to be independent and manage her emotions at the same time her sister is becoming a proper person.

I think sibling rivalry and jealousy is also playing a part - and I would very much stop your husband taking DD1 side leaving you on DD2 because that isnt going to help

It is really hard. I imagined my two playing lovingly but really until the youngest was 2 that wasn’t that didn’t really work. It crushed me when my eldest turned around one day in the park and said she wished her sister hadn’t been born. Can’t remember if she was 3 or 4. She was quite upset with herself afterwards as well and the strength of her words had shocked her. i spent quite a bit of time trying to see things from her perspective and actually having a 1yo around is a bit shit if you’re 3 or above.

InSpaceNooneCanHearYouScream You see, this is where I think many parents go completely wrong. Simply saying 'no hitting' and then cuddling a child, often teaches absolutely nothing, other than that the child can get away with horrible behaviour. Why would you cuddle her when she's just hit you for god's sake? hmm

That's not what I suggested. I asked if it was the first time, if it isn't then I would have a different approach. The little girl is 3 and is learning how to deal with big emotions. Maybe what she was trying to articulate was "I'm hungry now, before the baby came you would have got me a snack straight away. I'm feeling a bit rejected and jealous that you are choosing to change their nappy rather than look after me". But, she's 3. She could have hit the baby, but she hit her mum. Now she's learnt that if she hits her mum she is made to feel even worse, so she might stop hitting her mum. Might not stop her hitting the baby though. I think after being told no, she needs support and understanding. She needs to be told that her mum can see she was feeling really cross and angry and that's really hard, but hitting is not OK. If she wants to hit she can hit a pillow. Never a person or animal.
If you mess up - do something wrong at home or work, what helps you best? Someone shutting you in a room, or someone listening and talking it through with compassion?

@riotlady
I did ask if it was the first time. If time out was what worked for you then that's great. I just don't think it needs to be a first resort. If the purpose of time out is to calm down then in this instance it had the absolute opposite effect.
People parent differently, children behave differently. I don't think there is one size fits all. I do think programmes on badly behaved children are showing behavioural techniques for children who are really struggling. I don't think the techniques are particularly helpful or necessary for the majority of families.

I think you and your DH need to sit down and have a frank discussion on discipline and boundaries etc!
You're children are bound to have squabbles and bad behaviour sometimes but you both need to be on the same page when it happens.
I couldn't put up with somebody that constantly undermined me and told me my child would hate me! He's an idiot.

What was your husband doing while you were corralling two small children?

DD got up this morning, came into me and completely off her own back said sorry for yesterday and gave me a big hug. Melted my heart and me feel like I am doing something right!

My DD went through a hitting phase at around that age. She was properly stubborn and one day in particular had 3 time outs in her bedroom with full on shouting / screaming in temper. However, it did work, she did stop hitting and now as a teen can't get her out of the bedroom so definitely no fear there. She won't even remember it, let alone hate you for it.